# Eat a sandwich! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758 "2006-02-03T00:01:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/121 "2006-02-04T00:11:18Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > It’s a plot (no doubt hatched by men) to drive us insane. Sorta like this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/122 "2006-02-04T00:31:06Z")
I remember reading an interview with Lindsay Lohan right about the time she started looking really really thin. She said something along the lines of this, “When I started to lose weight, people kept telling me how thin and beautiful I looked, and I thought, ‘Was I fat before?’” For me, that’s it in a nutshell. Women are made to feel they are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. If celebrities weigh a bit more than the public thinks they should then they are ridiculed, but if they lose too much, they are called anorexic. There’s an ungodly amount of pressure on them that I can’t even imagine. I’m a good weight for my height, and I’m in great physical shape from working out and trying to eat healthy. But, there are times when I worry about how I look and wonder if I shouldn’t try to lose a few pounds. It’s ridiculous, but we all do it. I don’t think it matters what size a woman is, she’s always going to judge herself harshly when it comes to her weight. It’s too bad that as a culture we care more about weight and looks than almost anything else. Women need to be looked at as more than just the sum of their parts. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/123 "2006-02-04T00:51:07Z")
I think I see what **Rubystreak** means about Simpson. Her breasts have that weird bulging look at the TOP, rather than the bottom. It’s possible it’s just lighting and airbrushing, but considering she’s gone apeshit with the collagen injections, it wouldn’t surprise me if she had implants. Not of course, there’s anything wrong with that. If you want implants, go for it. I personally can’t stand the woman because she’s an idiot who acts like she’s proud to be stupid. I think she’s a horrible role model for young girls. And she needs to lay off the fake bake. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/124 "2006-02-04T03:01:05Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > At this point, I’m becoming increasingly convinced that you **are** in denial. That’s a shame: Same right back atcha. At this point, I’m becoming increasingly convinced that you don’t get it. I really can’t help you with this attitude, but I do think you need to spend some time thinking about your attitudes towards women’s bodies. See how much fun this is? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/125 "2006-02-04T03:03:45Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I remember reading an interview with Lindsay Lohan right about the time she started looking really really thin. She said something along the lines of this, "When I started to lose weight, people kept telling me how thin and beautiful I looked, and I thought, ‘Was I fat before?’. Lindsay Lohan has an eating disorder and has gotten treatment for it. She also got breast implants when she was only a teenager. To me, it’s a tragedy because she was (and still can be) a beautiful girl. She was never, ever remotely fat. It makes me kind of angry because I see in her the suffering and self-destructive loathing that afflicts a lot of girls of her age group. I hope she figures her shit out. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/126 "2006-02-04T04:02:17Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Same right back atcha. At this point, I’m becoming increasingly convinced that you don’t get it. I really can’t help you with this attitude, but I do think you need to spend some time thinking about your attitudes towards women’s bodies. > > See how much fun this is? :rolleyes: What, being a whackjob, nutty ass bitch with no debating skills? You have constantly mininterpreted everybodies points, painting your own “projection” onto others. You ignore contrary information, constantly reverting back to this little fantasy land of yours in which the you not so much argue your opponents points, but in which you argue against some position that you imagine all people that are against you share. ’ You are obviously a complete nutcase with no common sense or real apparent intelligence and only want to go postal and point fingers because of some self image problems. Obviously there is no point in even discussing anything with you. Nothing I or LHOD says matters because it bounces off your solid bone head and all you hear is nothing near what is actually being said. Go take your lithium, loon. ---
**Author:** ![Amaranta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Amaranta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amaranta)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/127 "2006-02-04T04:06:16Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Lindsay Lohan has an eating disorder and has gotten treatment for it. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/128 "2006-02-04T04:21:13Z")
> [@amaranta](#): > > Cite? Read the latest issue of _Vanity Fair_. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/129 "2006-02-04T04:27:02Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > What, being a whackjob, nutty ass bitch with no debating skills? > > … > > Go take your lithium, loon. :rolleyes: Overreact much? Good thing you’re able to diagnose all my problems over a three page thread on a message board. Doc. A real genius you are, a gentleman AND a scholar. You’ve got me figured out. I would say “go fuck yourself,” but you’re already plenty fucked as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/130 "2006-02-04T04:29:15Z")
Coming from you that is a compliment. Go feed your cats, baglady. Oh, don’t look in the mirror again, don’t want to hear your crying all night again. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/131 "2006-02-04T04:32:28Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Coming from you that is a compliment. > > Go feed your cats, baglady. Oh, don’t look in the mirror again, don’t want to hear your crying all night again. Do you have a point? ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/132 "2006-02-04T04:34:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Do you have a point? A pretty good one, at one time, unfortunatly it got rolled over by Ladydeath debater here, and was turned into pretty much the opposite of what I was saying so that she could have a box to stand on. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/133 "2006-02-04T04:35:11Z")
> [@amaranta](#): > > Cite? She said, and I quote, “I saw that SNL after I did it. My arms were disgusting. I had no arms.” Now, if I said that same thing, I’d be a psychotic thin-basher. Lorne Michaels and Tina Fey staged an intervention when she was doing SNL, and she got help. I feel bad for her and I hope she turns out OK. > [@Epimetheus](#): > > Coming from you that is a compliment. > > Go feed your cats, baglady. Oh, don’t look in the mirror again, don’t want to hear your crying all night again. Hahahahaha! Insulting me for having cats and calling me a “baglady” is your idea of a witty retort, a rhetoric coup de grace? You’ve gone the ad hominem route, and are therefore no longer worthy of actual debate. Why don’t you stick to the topic and stop trying to get off clever, irrelevant insults? Maybe it’s because you have nothing further intelligent to say on the subject of women’s body images and have to resort to 7th grade level taunting. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/134 "2006-02-04T04:39:54Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Hahahahaha! Insulting me for having cats and calling me a “baglady” is your idea of a witty retort, a rhetoric coup de grace? You’ve gone the ad hominem route, and are therefore no longer worthy of actual debate. Why don’t you stick to the topic and stop trying to get off clever, irrelevant insults? Maybe it’s because you have nothing further intelligent to say on the subject of women’s body images and have to resort to 7th grade level taunting. Grow up. Oh, you were never really interested in debate, that was obvious in all those posts deliberately misrepresenting everything any of your opponents said. I stuck to the topics, let me recap: You: Jessica Simpson is the devil, she is an emanciated skeleton, the devil and likes to subvert little girls into throwing up their dinner to look like her. Me: Jessica Simpson isn’t emanciated, she is just thin and looks fine. You: So you are saying she is the paragon of women and it is ok that little girls starve themselves Me: No, Jessica isn’t emanciated, I don’t care what a person looks like, thin or heavy, people should not strive to look like others. You: You need to fix your view of womens bodies, worshiper of skeletons! Rant, rant rant. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/135 "2006-02-04T04:44:53Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Oh, you were never really interested in debate, that was obvious in all those posts deliberately misrepresenting everything any of your opponents said. I stuck to the topics, let me recap: Wow, ad hominem attack AND a straw man! You are the wunderkind of rhetorical blunders. And _I_ put words in _YOUR_ mouth. Please look up the psychological phenomenon called “projecting” and then look in the mirror. Your summary is absurd and inaccurate. Are you really trying pass this off as my thoughts? Please go get a grip and come back when you’re capable of discussing actual points and not trying to turn me into some sort of monster for you to hurl insults at. I know this is the Pit, but really. If you want to debate, get back on topic and off ME. I’m flattered by all the blustery attention, but you’re embarrassing yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/136 "2006-02-04T05:12:05Z")
Very well, debate it is. > [@](#): > > There ARE normal sized people. I think I’m pretty normal for a 34 year old. I’m a size 8, but I’m well-endowed and curvy. I have a small tummy that I’ve always had, my whole life, and I’ve come to realize that’s part and parcel of being busty. They go together, and very few people can have one without the other, unless they spend a lot of time in the gym, or with a plastic surgeon. So your defintion of normal is around your size, am I not correct? How do you draw this conclusion, what is your sample size, and what are your upper and lower boundries? Funny how you jump right into discussing yourself. Heh > [@](#): > > Though I’m in decent shape, I could never be in a commercial or an underwear ad. Why? Because all those women are size 0-2. If you think that’s “normal” for a grown woman, you live in a fantasy world. Some more comments about yourself I see, no issues though. _snerk_ So skinny girls with big breasts are not normal? What is a full grown woman. A girl stops growing by age 18 or so right? Well, I can tell you right now, and repeat my earlier anectodal evidence, my sample size is at least 13,000 18-23 year old college girls, and you are abolutely wrong. You CAN be skinny and have big breasts. And to throw this out there too, you can be pretty and smart (Alice\_in-Wonderland for example) > [@](#): > > Frankly, they do not need guys like you telling them that Jessica Simpson is some paragon of the normal female form Ok, right now, give me a cite to somebody claiming this. Saying somebody looks good, or somebody looks great doesn’t mean they think they are a pargon of what normal is. Unless you care to provide some citation or a formal proof of this. > [@](#): > > This whole thing started because you said Jessica Simpson looked perfectly normal. If she did not have ginormous boobs and a board-flat stomach, maybe. It’s not abnormal for some women to be very thin, naturally. But those boobs do not match the rest of her and make her look really wrong, NOT normal. Body fat is normal for a woman, and it’s not really normal to have huge deposits of body fat in one place and nowhere else. It is a cartoonish representation of the feminine shape. This again, you have this distaste for flat stomachs and big breasts. Or obsession anyhow. Womens bodies differ drastically, this is very true. Some women are very skinny but have larger backsides, some have no backsides, skinny legs, but big breasts and even sometimes a gut. Shapes and sizes of all kinds. Many women have breasts that are large even at a very low bodyfat percent. This is a fact. You may not like it, but just because some women lose almost all their fat deposits in certain areas, like breasts, doesn’t mean that all of them do. A skinny girl with large breasts != implants. (though in JS case they are probably so, you cannot, however conclude that they are rare, they are definately NOT, again, I am certain my sample size is larger than yours- and younger, ahem) > [@](#): > > Between my arthritis and my natural build, there’s no way I could do it. Thus, I will try to hold here at a size 8 with just diet and walking around. Ahh, more mention of your body type and subversive innuendos that you are not happy with your condition. Or perhaps I am projecting, lol. (oh you are so smart, I mean I never heard that term in my psychology classes or anything) > [@](#): > > This is where I think the fantasy world comes in. Do you think a board-flat stomach is feminine? I don’t. I also don’t think fake boobs are feminine, or protruding hip and rib bones. But to each his own. Just don’t tell me I’m anti-fitness because I’m anti-unrealistic body forms. That’s a straw man argument that you’re making, not an argument you’re having with me. This fantasy world, oh yeah, full of the flat stomached, big breasted (36B or bigger), athletic girls I see streaming down the halls and across campus all day every day. Yeah… But wait: > [@](#): > > Yeah, and you didn’t think Jessica Simpson had any bones sticking out either. > [@](#): > > protruding hip and rib bones If you don’t think JS has any bones sticking out, why do you keep bringing this up? No issues here, no sirre! And personally I do find a flat stomach is very feminine, I also think a well rounded women is EQUALLY feminine. Of course you don’t want to hear that, you want to paint your opponents as shallow, so you convienently ignore such facts when you say things like “but I do think you need to spend some time thinking about your attitudes towards women’s bodies.” (more to come, trust me, just don’t want one super post) ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/137 "2006-02-04T05:39:30Z")
> [@amaranta](#): > > Cite? Read [here](http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1519731/01042006/lohan_lindsay.jhtml?headlines=true), she got treatment, put on weight and is doing better so far. A person who’d worked with her, a “father figure” did an intervention to help her IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/138 "2006-02-04T05:43:13Z")
> [@](#): > > If this is not too forward, what is your bra size? Because my point here is not that being thin is unhealthy. It’s that “popsicle stick with two canteloupe halves stuck to it” look that so many models and actresses sport is what I have a problem with. Either you have the big boobs OR you have the flat stomach, has been my experience of normalcy for women, with room for exceptions, of course. Again with the claims on what is normal for women. Trust me, as a guy that spends much of my time looking at women, I have to say that you are absolutely wrong. There are a large percent of women with both big boobs and a flat stomach, and I see them every freaking day. Hell, I saw plenty of them before I was in college. But your preoccupation with large breasts on skinny women continues to be very… interesting. > [@](#): > > They are unnatural, but whatever people want to do with their bodies is none of my business. Well, all this fuss and all these negative judgments on something you think is none of your business. Interesting. Very interesting. Care to expound upon this? > [@](#): > > They are held up by the media as the standard of beauty, and there isn’t a lot of tolerance for other body types. Ah yes, the ubiquous Hollywood Cabal. I mean, they are the ones that matter right? And what about non-Hollywood standards? Like New York studios and those in Florida? Are they in on this Cabal that set standards for all guys? > [@](#): > > What’s the difference between “normal” and “the norm,” first of all? Second, there is a difference between being thin and having bones sticking out. A triathlete like your ex-wife would likely have muscle over those bones, no? Jessica Simpson didn’t look muscular or worked out to me. I can tell the difference. Ok, so first you don’t think there are bones sticking out, you sure like to bring it up a whole lot. Or were you perhaps being disingeneous? I think you were! Outright lying to appeal to the debaters. Make yourself the good girl and maybe you will have support, but keep dropping the inuendos and maybe nobody will notice. Maybe the reason you can’t tell the difference is because you 1. never saw her pre-workout, and 2. don’t work out yourself and likely don’t even know what the fuck to look for? Hmm? I think I would stick to 2, but 1 is a possiblility. I mean, she looks pretty muscular in that picture to me, for a woman anyhow. I have heard about her exercise times and routine and sorry, you don’t do all that without retaining some muscle, and to me it looks it. > [@](#): > > My point, which you keep missing, is that big boobs and flat stomachs don’t go together except on teenagers and women with plastic surgeons. More lies. I know women my own age that cannot even afford plastic surgery and they have both of these. More assumptions and possibly lies from your corner. And when somebody comes in to give anecdotal evidence to the contrary you ignore them or jump all over them like you did with alice. > [@](#): > > WTF is up with you people, putting words in everyone’s mouth? Oh, the sweet, sweet, irony. > [@](#): > > I only have contempt for people who want to define normalcy by an unrealistic standard. Oh, and what is this standard? You gather this from your friends, or do you hand around in showers looking for peoples potbellies? Perhaps your friends all have the same sort of build you do, but is that because it is normal, or because your acerbic attitude towards the thinner types pushes them away? Likely the latter judging from your attitude here. > [@](#): > > I’m saying normal can be a lot of things, but the standard held up for women and girls is NOT normal for most people, and no, not because we’re all a bunch of fatties, either. got any evidence of this “standard” that is being held up? You talk about projecting, but I have to say that this whole idea of a standard is text book projection. It is all inferences and feelings drawn from instances and not backed up by fact. Unless you care to provide a cite and prove me wrong, you are projecting your own inferrence of other peoples thoughts (standards of beauty) and trying to say that we all share it. bullshit > [@](#): > > These very petite, small-boned, thin women often look beautiful but they are not the only way to be, and sometimes the way they get so thin is not healthy or requires surgery. That’s what I don’t like. The other natural body types are not equally represented in media and cultural images of what’s acceptable, even though they are healthy and in fact more common. I agree that they are not the only way to be. All sizes and shapes are beautiful and lovely. (with very few exceptions) I also realize that SOMETIMES people get thin through surgery and unhealthy means. But you are not realizing that it is still the minority, where you seem to keep suggesting that all thin people are unhealthy except for the small minority of healthy thin people, and you are wrong, it is the opposite. Perhaps the other body types are not represented as much in the media because they are too busy railing against thin people, worrying about their self worth based on appearence and ranting incoherently on message boards instead of developing talent, working the system and getting spots on TV shows and in movies? Just a thought. perhaps if those other body shapes stoped fucking worrying about what they look like, gain some damn self esteem and went out there they would be there? Not to damn complex. > [@](#): > > No, I have a problem with the expectation that women should look a certain way when, in fact, there are a lot of ways to look and still be beautiful. Yes, definately agree, but you have not provided evidence that women are expected to look a certain way. And yes, my rants above were deliberately immature and incoherent. I was making a point, thought I was obviously too subtle. Think about the tone of them and the content in the context of this “debate.” ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/139 "2006-02-04T06:04:19Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Very well, debate it is. On preview, I see you’re admitting that your previous posts were “immature and incoherent.” Good, that’s a step. Now let’s not try to pretend that you were doing it on purpose. Just 'fess up to being a jerk and let’s move on. I’m not going to reply to your second post b/c I feel I’ve adequately covered the topic in this one, and frankly, I’m tired of reading your tired arguments. I’m pleased that I could shame you into getting back on topic. It’s kinda hard to take you seriously after your best retort was telling me to take my lithium (all that diagnostic psychiatric acumen come from your Psych 101 class?), but OK, Doc, let’s go. > [@](#): > > So your defintion of normal is around your size, am I not correct? How do you draw this conclusion, what is your sample size, and what are your upper and lower boundries? No, and where are you getting that? I have said over and over that there should be a big range of what’s normal. I think there are size 12 women who are normal, and size 2’s. My point, that I feel I’ve made _over and over_, is that only the size 2 woman will be used in the media, thus giving the strong impression that it’s the only acceptable body type. Jessica Simpson is one of those girls, and that’s what I object to. Nothing personal to JS, I’m sure she’s a very nice person. > [@](#): > > So skinny girls with big breasts are not normal? Oh, girls like that are normal. It’s _women_ like that I question as the norm. When I was 18, I was like that, and I work with teenagers and a lot of them look like that. It doesn’t last them far into their latter years of life. I think I’ve said that over and over also. > [@](#): > > my sample size is at least 13,000 18-23 year old college girls, and you are abolutely wrong. You CAN be skinny and have big breasts. Ah, now the truth comes out! It all makes sense now! You’re on a college campus and you’re trying to extrapolate _that sample age population onto how women are built as an entire gender_, across the decades? No wonder you’re so clueless. You’re looking at women in the prime of their beauty, before time and gravity and natural bodily processes happen. Things change, and if you want to date women your own age in the future, you’d better get used to it. > [@](#): > > Saying somebody looks good, or somebody looks great doesn’t mean they think they are a pargon of what normal is. Unless you care to provide some citation or a formal proof of this. Maybe YOU aren’t, but society is, the media IS, and women’s culture is. Ask Lindsay Lohan if this isn’t true. She needed a freakin’ INTERVENTION to save herself from her eating disorder because, at a perfectly normal body size, she believed she was fat. Good for you if you don’t look at JS or the bulimia-stricken LL and think her looks should be a model for other women, but many, many people do, and that’s my problem. Frankly, what you think is of no consequence to me. It’s the culture that idolizes her I’m worried about. > [@](#): > > This again, you have this distaste for flat stomachs and big breasts. Or obsession anyhow. Oh, for fuck’s sake. I have 34DD’s, so no, I do not have a distaste for big boobs. I also have no problem with flat stomachs when both are naturally occurring. Someone women have both, but not a lot, and definitely not a lot of women in their 30’s and over. Breasts are made of fat. Most women who have fat in one place have it in another. It’s very odd to have stacks of it all on your chest and none on your ass, hips, and/or belly. esp. over the course of a lifetime. This is a fact and I will find cites if you want. Can you really be disputing this? > [@](#): > > A skinny girl with large breasts != implants. (though in JS case they are probably so, you cannot, however conclude that they are rare, they are definately NOT, again, I am certain my sample size is larger than yours- and younger, ahem) First of all, I work in a school full of teenagers, so I think my sample size is even younger than yours. Unlike you, though, I recognize that it’s idiotic to compare very young women to the whole female population. It’s this attitude, this fixation on the look of a woman in her prime as the normative expectation for female beauty, that leads so many beautiful, diverse-looking women to feel inadequate. If you could for one second realize that you’re looking at only one small sample age group and stop thinking that’s the standard, you’d get what I’m saying here. Next, where did I ever say that a skinny girl with large breasts = implants? In JS’s case, yes. Ditto Lindsay Lohan. I see teenage girls all the time who have big breasts who are tiny, naturally. They are also 13-14, so this for them is normal and healthy. In cases like JS’s, her body type and her breasts don’t match, which looks fake and weird to me. I guarantee if you showed me a woman whose breasts were natural and who had a toned body, I wouldn’t say she was emaciated or bizarre. I happen to think Angelina Jolie is a knock-out (though sadly, she has had rhinplasty, but her bod and lips are real, unlike JS [(duck lips!](http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/), poor thing). > [@](#): > > Ahh, more mention of your body type and subversive innuendos that you are not happy with your condition. Or perhaps I am projecting, lol. (oh you are so smart, I mean I never heard that term in my psychology classes or anything) Like I said, physician, heal thyself-- you know what projection is but you don’t recognize when you’re doing it. I am happy with my body type. I wish more people were happy with theirs. If I though I had to look like JS or LL, I wouldn’t be happy, though, and I see a lot of girls who haven’t accepted themselves for how they are. It makes me angry to see them suffer. Do you feel any sympathy for them? > [@](#): > > And personally I do find a flat stomach is very feminine, I also think a well rounded women is EQUALLY feminine. Of course you don’t want to hear that, you want to paint your opponents as shallow, so you convienently ignore such facts when you say things like “but I do think you need to spend some time thinking about your attitudes towards women’s bodies.” I think we ALL need to think about our attitudes towards women’s bodies. I have spent plenty of time thinking about it. Considering that I live in one, I have been thinking about it all my life. You have been oggling women all your life, but do you really know what it’s like to be one and deal with a sick cultural standard for your body? Maybe you do from your side of things, but not from a woman’s POV. I think a flat stomach is feminine when it FITS THE WOMAN’S BUILD. I personally don’t care what _you_ think is feminine, since you’re really not my target audience. Those decrepit bagmen that cat-loving bagladies like me go after are dealing with a sample size of ADULT women who are well past the gravity-defying days of our high school and college years. We’re all OK with it over here, but then, we’re not living on a game preserve for women circa the age of 20. Enjoy them while you can. Soon enough you will be too old to date them, and then what will you do? You’ll have to settle for someone your own age, and your unrealistic expectations might trip you up. > [@](#): > > (more to come, trust me, just don’t want one super post) Oh, my dear, trust me, I can handle whatever you spew out. ---
**Author:** ![jakeline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@jakeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakeline)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/140 "2006-02-04T06:06:43Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Perhaps the other body types are not represented as much in the media because they are too busy railing against thin people, worrying about their self worth based on appearence and ranting incoherently on message boards instead of developing talent, working the system and getting spots on TV shows and in movies? Just a thought. perhaps if those other body shapes stoped fucking worrying about what they look like, gain some damn self esteem and went out there they would be there? Not to damn complex. I’m being wooshed here, aren’t I? This is a joke, right? You can’t POSSIBLY be serious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758.md?page=8)