# Eat it Hillary! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 4, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239 "2008-01-04T05:32:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/101 "2008-01-05T15:05:31Z")
I wonder if this is going to change the nature of the campaign. Will Hillary step up the negative? There are already been kind of low key comments out of her side about his “electability”, which IMO is code for saying, “Can’t you see he’s BLACK?”. I suppose they could be talking about his youth. :dubious: I suppose this campaign will answer a long asked question: who is more electable, a black man or a white woman? This is a very good time for the question to play out. I think America is so fundamentally conservative that in “normal” times neither could win. But GWB has been so unbelievably destructive and the Pub candidates have been following him down the yellow brick road, that’s it’s hard to imagine either Obama or Clinton could lose. But then I remember 2004… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/102 "2008-01-05T15:27:43Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I suppose this campaign will answer a long asked question: who is more electable, a black man or a white woman? [/QUOTE] I don’t think you’re giving the electorate much credit here. It’s hardly as if the two candidates are equivalent apart from race and gender. So to draw any conclusions on the relative electability of white women and black men you’d have to assume that people vote solely on race and gender at the exclusion of all else. While we might jest about the electorate being dim and tritely motivated (except for our good selves, naturally), I just don’t believe that’s true; at least, not to this extent. If one of the two gets elected, all it will tell us is that either women or black men are now electable. Moreover, if they fail it won’t prove that women/black men are unelectable, merely that these two aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/103 "2008-01-05T15:55:14Z")
I think even the most insane partisan on here has to agree that news articles like this do not make the public at large feel better about Hilary: [Would a President Hilary appoint Bill to the US Supreme Court?](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/04/justice.clinton/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/104 "2008-01-05T15:59:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Makes sense. I still wonder, though, why he[Mark Warner] didn’t run for president himself. And might whatever considerations kept him from running for president also keep him from accepting a VP slot? It may be as simple as not having a whole lot of national name recognition, and thus starting out at a huge disadvantage to Clinton, Obama, and Edwards in the top spot. Someone more in touch with Virginia politics may know more. > [@](#): > > How about Jim Web? That would be insane. Good insane. A young maverick, former Republican “tough guy”, both of whom are come to DC to shake some serious shit up! > > Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Risky as all hell, but I think we might be ready to throw off the establishment pols and go with the smart, tough, young set. Webb would be great, but as **spoke-** mentioned above, he’s not exactly young. I think Obama is better off with another “rising star” on the ticket, and I’m not sure you could put Webb in that category. > [@](#): > > This is a very good time for the question to play out. I think America is so fundamentally conservative that in “normal” times neither could win. But GWB has been so unbelievably destructive and the Pub candidates have been following him down the yellow brick road, that’s it’s hard to imagine either Obama or Clinton could lose. > > But then I remember 2004… It’s worth remembering 2004, but it’s also worth noting that a huge shift in public opinion happened in 2005 or so. Both the public and the media were still pro-war and pro-Bush back then, hard as it is to believe. 2006 was a different ballgame, and 2008 will be too. The Democrats could certainly blow it, but for the first time it’s really theirs to blow. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/105 "2008-01-05T16:01:50Z")
[QUOTE=Dead Badger] I don’t think you’re giving the electorate much credit here… [/QUOTE] You’re right, I don’t. Look who’s in the White House now. The electorate doesn’t deserve mch credit. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/106 "2008-01-05T16:16:54Z")
For what it’s worth, a couple of the Obama people at our caucus told me that if the Obama group wasn’t viable, they were moving to the Edwards group. I don’t know if that was their personal preference or if the Obama organization suggested it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/107 "2008-01-05T16:39:48Z")
It is sad that we still have to deal with whether a woman or black can be elected in the US. I am not convinced a black can. If we remember the differences between blacks and whites at the OJ verdict., we have to wonder. I think Edwards would be a safer choice. The repubs would set a new standard for swiftboating if Hillary became the nominee. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/108 "2008-01-05T16:39:55Z")
[QUOTE=AuntiePam] For what it’s worth, a couple of the Obama people at our caucus told me that if the Obama group wasn’t viable, they were moving to the Edwards group. I don’t know if that was their personal preference or if the Obama organization suggested it. [/QUOTE] I really think that if and when Edwards drops out Obama will pick up the lion’s share of his supporters (and _vice versa_). They are both anti-Hillarys. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/109 "2008-01-05T16:49:51Z")
[QUOTE=drm] I have no horse in this race, but I just watched his speech and he is one charismatic mofo. He crushes every candidate in both parties in that battle. I’m pulling for him to win if for no other reason that I love listening to his speeches. [/QUOTE] That is pretty much my own unlearned opinion, watching this unfold from the other side of the planet. Obama is one of those rare people that just seems to be a brain-on-legs. I hope he gets up. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/110 "2008-01-05T17:16:45Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] I think even the most insane partisan on here has to agree that news articles like this do not make the public at large feel better about Hilary: [Would a President Hilary appoint Bill to the US Supreme Court?](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/04/justice.clinton/index.html) [/QUOTE] That article does not even suggest that Hillary has even proposed the possibility. It’s commentators saying it could happen, and the majority seem to think it farfetched. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/111 "2008-01-05T19:46:16Z")
I don’t like Hillary all that much, but I don’t she’d make a horrible president. She would probably be fine. Really, compared to what we have now, I’d be more than happy with HRC in the White House. I just don’t think she has a chance of getting elected. None. The Republicans could nominate Boo Boo the Fool (like they did in 2000), and HRC would not be able to amass the number of votes to win. Look at the number of people on this supposedly liberal board who have negative things to say about Hillary. This does not bode well for her electability.The invisible fence-sitters and independents will probably have twice as many problems with her, if this thread is any indication. I support Obama because 1) I like him and agree with his positions and 2) out of the three top Dem candidates, he’s the only one I think has the power to win the dang thing. Hillary has a lot of great things going for her ( **Hippy Hollow** made an excellent point in the other thread about this), but she lacks the ability to get people to flock to her team. This is an important quality. Obama may not be unstoppable but I think he’s got a better shot than HRC. So I’ll be disappointed it she receives the nomination, not because I think she’ll be a bad president, but because I really think if HRC is nominated, we might as well skip the election and say hello to President Guiliani. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/112 "2008-01-05T21:07:45Z")
[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow] That article does not even suggest that Hillary has even proposed the possibility. It’s commentators saying it could happen, and the majority seem to think it farfetched. [/QUOTE] I agree completely. But the _article_ is going to end up feeding the fears of some. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/113 "2008-01-05T21:29:21Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] I think even the most insane partisan on here has to agree that news articles like this do not make the public at large feel better about Hilary: [Would a President Hilary appoint Bill to the US Supreme Court?](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/04/justice.clinton/index.html) [/QUOTE] Does not reach the level of Harriet Miers does it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/114 "2008-01-05T21:36:41Z")
Given his previous legal contretemps, would he be qualified to sit on the bench in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/115 "2008-01-05T21:45:56Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Given his previous legal contretemps, would he be qualified to sit on the bench in the first place? [/QUOTE] What qualification does he not meet? You know that you you don’t even have to be a lawyer, or even have experience in the judicial system to sit on that bench. I don’t know that there are any requirements at all, other than being a citizen. He was disbarred (IIRC) from practicing law in AK for some period of time, but that’s over. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/116 "2008-01-05T21:47:36Z")
why? he was suspended from pracicing law for a short time, not disbarred. Of course, I don’t believe for a second that he’d be nominated or confirmed. there’s certainlly other, more qualified and less controversial folks. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/117 "2008-01-05T22:11:04Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I really think that if and when Edwards drops out Obama will pick up the lion’s share of his supporters (and _vice versa_). They are both anti-Hillarys. [/QUOTE] I don’t agree with the \*vice versa \* part. Edwards is on the left where Obama & Clinton on fairly moderate or centrist or whatever expression you want to use. Many looking at Obama won’t jump to Edwards. Some will and some won’t. I do see the Edwards voters leaning more towards Obama then Clinton. I just not sure I can say why. I think he would be more acceptable to democrats on the left than HRC, even if there is not a lot of difference between the two. If nothing else, Hillary being more blatantly Hawkish will work against her with those supporting Edwards. Jim (I had decided to vote for Obama in the primary and I found yesterday I cannot, it takes 50 days in NJ to switch parties.) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/118 "2008-01-05T22:36:23Z")
To answer **John** and **wring** above, Clinton’s Arkansas law license was suspended for five years, not really what I’d consider a short time. He was also disbarred from practicing law before the U.S. Supreme Court and impeached by the House for perjury and obstruction of justice. But perhaps I should have phrased my question differently. What I was wondering is if he’d stand any realistic chance at all of gaining confirmation given the notion I have that it would be unseemly (to say the least) to have someone with his spurious legal and moral history sitting on the land’s highest court, and especially so given the fact that he has been disbarred from appearing before it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/119 "2008-01-06T03:37:46Z")
Before the Obame supporters get too ecstatic and the Hillary supporters decide to cut their wrists, here are the delegates won by the top 3 Dems in the Iowa caucus: Obama: 16 Edwards: 15 Clinton: 14 2,200 delegates are needed to clinch the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239/120 "2008-01-06T14:46:51Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] Before the Obame supporters get too ecstatic and the Hillary supporters decide to cut their wrists, here are the delegates won by the top 3 Dems in the Iowa caucus: Obama: 16 Edwards: 15 Clinton: 14 2,200 delegates are needed to clinch the nomination. [/QUOTE] This isn’t about votes. This is about MOMENTUM, and Hillary eating it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-it-hillary/432239.md?page=7)