# Eat my shit George W. Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237 "2005-12-19T02:07:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/161 "2005-12-20T22:40:56Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Well I wasn’t until I checked out those “cites” that you just linked. > > The first one is a blog, and therefore worthless. Because it’s a blog it’s worthless! Even though it links to its source! It’s a hell of a lot more than you’ve cited to prove your contention that “4% error seems about reasonable,” that I think you read off the inside of your ass. > [@](#): > > The second looked interesting, until I actually started to read it. I offer the following qualifying excerpts: > > > [@](#): > > > > Furthermore, his conclusion is as follows: > > “My purpose in this paper has not been to allege election theft, let alone explain it. \ Systematic fraud or mistabulation is a premature conclusion, but the election’s unexplained exit poll discrepancies make it an unavoidable hypothesis, one that is the responsibility of the media, academia, polling agencies, and the public to investigate” > > The bulk of the paper is simply about how statistically unlikely several different outcomes of the election were, but makes no accusation that there was vote fraud or even claims to prove that there was, so we’re back to where I started All you’ve provided so far is speculation. I actually agree with the conclusion of the report in case you’re interested-investigate. Investigate long and investigate hard. However, here we are more than a year down the road from the election and so far, one thing as managed to escape the butterfly nets of the ardent conspiracy theorists…PROOF. Got any? [See post 92, my first](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6915071&postcount=92). And put the goalposts back. All I’ve done is called you on your dismissal of statistics with a wave of your hand. You want to investigate? You want smoking gun proof? Then stand with those who want paper trails, and demand data be released in Ohio that the Secretary of State has been withholding. > [@](#): > > The third cite needs a new web designer, but 20 minutes on their website turned up no evidence that they weren’t a partisan cite. Non-profit, yes, nowhere did I see any claims that it’s non-partisan. Nowhere did I see any proof offered there either, just the same type of hair brained speculation and nonsense as surrounds this issue like a cloud from the Democratic side. Because it’s partisan, they must be lying! You don’t need to refute the content, only point out they’re liberal! Cool! As far as no proof, I guess you didn’t visit the ‘analyses’ or ‘data’ sections - or maybe you expect them to get that data they can’t. > [@](#): > > So, based upon what you offer as “cites”. I am now prepared to state that you are being deliberately misleading on this subject. Then there’s no point to this. I’m arguing in good faith. You’ve added nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/162 "2005-12-20T22:57:31Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > Do you see the word FANS there? It’s the seventh word in the paragraph. I made no claim about those who actually participate. Y’all remind me of their _FANS_. Get it now? Oh, now I get it. And it’s all on the LEFT side of the state. And you’re referring strictly to the FANS. How did you know all their FANS were LEFTies? Tapdance all you want, you’re still full of shit. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/163 "2005-12-20T23:07:30Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > How did you know all their FANS were LEFTies? Because **W** was a Cheerleader? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/164 "2005-12-21T00:25:20Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Because it’s a blog it’s worthless! Yup. Absolute garbage. Total kaka. Just like your argument, it’s a piece of shit. Shall I dig up right wing blogs to refute it? That would be equally pointless. It’s an OPINION piece, NOT a factual piece. > [@bup](#): > > [See post 92, my first](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6915071&postcount=92). And put the goalposts back. All I’ve done is called you on your dismissal of statistics with a wave of your hand. Your own fucking cite says that exit polls have never been academically studied for accuracy, and you accuse me of dismissing statistics with a wave of my hand. I’m not doing that at all, but I am recognizing that statistics is one endeavor where the data is extrodinarily vulnerable to being massaged by the analyst. A 15% difference? yea, I’d say that was a smoking gun. A 4% difference? Not so much, especially when dealing with rubber numbers such as exit polls generate. You’re fishing. > [@](#): > > You want to investigate? You want smoking gun proof? Then stand with those who want paper trails, and demand data be released in Ohio that the Secretary of State has been withholding. I support the full revelation of any and all relevant facts to any official, bi-partisan committee officially appointed to investigate. Bending over backwards to accommodate a witch hunt, ehh, you’re on your own. > [@](#): > > Because it’s partisan, they must be lying! Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes! From either side! Christ, would you treat seriously with an article from Focus on the Family? Partisan cites are worthless because they come at each issue looking for data to support the conclusions they have already reached. Inevitably they find it. That’s true the world over, on any subject. > [@](#): > > You don’t need to refute the content, only point out they’re liberal! Cool! As far as no proof, I guess you didn’t visit the ‘analyses’ or ‘data’ sections - or maybe you expect them to get that data they can’t. There’s no content to refute! Half that website is dedicated to them saying why they think papers that disagree with their POV are wrong, the other half is moaning that “If only we had this or that magical piece of info, we’d be vindicated!”. It’s a witch hunt pure and simple. It was disgusting when The Republicans did it to Bill Clinton in the 90s, it was vile when the Democrats turned right around and did the same thing for 2 years before finally netting…Scooter Libby (Scooter Libby, are you shitting me? 2 years of wasted time and money to indite Scooter Libby for maybe saying something different to a reporter than he said under oath. Scooter fucking Libby! If it wasn’t so tragic how polarized this country is, it would be hilarious) and it’s putrid when these left wing conspiracy theorists do it here. > [@](#): > > Then there’s no point to this. I’m arguing in good faith. You’ve added nothing. You know something? If I argued in good faith that magnets cure cancer or that the Illuminati secretly run the world, I wouldn’t expect you to treat it as anything other than what it was: crazy. Arguing in good faith doesn’t add any credibility to the argument itself. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/165 "2005-12-21T01:45:26Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I have. Lots of it. I have a bachelor’s in math and economics (you take stats classes in both), and a master’s in Operations Research. > > Do you want to refute anything _specific_ I said, like that exit polls are used to verify that elections are ‘clean’ abroad, or that no exit poll has ever been off like the ones were after the last election, or that before the last election, people from _both_ sides agreed they were valid, or do you just want to keep dismissing it all generally and vaguely? I think you’re right. Something’s fishy. Clearly, Democratic activists were traveling from polling station to polling station in an attempt to skew the exit polls and have the media report a big Kerry win to depress the Republican turnout. A theory every bit as plausible as the ‘Republicans rigged the election!’. It has the benefit of having exactly as much evidence in support of it - zero. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/166 "2005-12-21T04:12:30Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Oh, now I get it. And it’s all on the LEFT side of the state. And you’re referring strictly to the FANS. > > How did you know all their FANS were LEFTies? > > Tapdance all you want, you’re still full of shit. > > -Joe You not only lack reading comprehension skills, you now demonstrate that you don’t know how to look at a map either. Young man, you need to get thee to a schoolery. Here’s a little tip to get you started: When one is properly oriented and looking at a map of the United States, the left side of a state is the west side. Pull you out a map and (maybe) you’ll see what I’m talkin’ about. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/167 "2005-12-21T11:00:02Z")
[Cite for 2004 election fraud in Ohio?](http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20051201/cm_huffpost/011483;_ylt=Ahoe9SauWLQamUh.SRIYrxADW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl) Unless we’re back to deciding that the GAO is unreliable, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/168 "2005-12-21T14:07:22Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > You not only lack reading comprehension skills, you now demonstrate that you don’t know how to look at a map either. Young man, you need to get thee to a schoolery. > > Here’s a little tip to get you started: When one is properly oriented and looking at a map of the United States, the left side of a state is the west side. Pull you out a map and (maybe) you’ll see what I’m talkin’ about. Ah…and the fact that you referred to it as the LEFT side rather than the WEST side is…a tribute to your homies? When I look at a map’s compass rose I can see N and E and S and W…but now L! Holy shit, I have a defective map! Call Rand Mcnally! You were trying to be so clever and so subtle. You failed. Did you know not all maps are orientated northwards? It’s true! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/169 "2005-12-21T14:42:57Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > You were trying to be so clever and so subtle. You failed. -Joe It would appear that I didn’t fail. Even _YOU_ were able to grasp some small part of the message. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/170 "2005-12-21T15:13:47Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > It would appear that I didn’t fail. Even _YOU_ were able to grasp some small part of the message. 😃 Since you’ve turned into such a wordsmith, would you mind tackling the matter of why competitive sports are the only place one learns to deal with adversity, such that it logically flows that people who are “whining” about possible fraud in a political election must never have participated in them? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/171 "2005-12-21T16:20:11Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Since you’ve turned into such a wordsmith, would you mind tackling the matter of why competitive sports are the only place one learns to deal with adversity, such that it logically flows that people who are “whining” about possible fraud in a political election must never have participated in them? Look, are you guys deliberately seeking out ways to be obtuse, or are you really limited in the reading comprehension department? You wrote: “…sports are the only place one learns…”. Please quote where I said sports are the **only** place. You can’t quote? That’s because I didn’t say that. Sports are a good place to learn to deal with adversity. I never said sports are the only such place. Big difference; one that apparently went right over your head. Changing what someone said and then attacking their position based on changes _YOU_ inserted is dishonest. > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > Cite for 2004 election fraud in Ohio? > > Unless we’re back to deciding that the GAO is unreliable, of course. **Tracy** : The GAO report was thoroughly discussed in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=343131&highlight=ohio+fraud) thread. I read the blog you linked to, and it seems to do the same thing the article in the other thread does. Lots of “coulda’, mighta’ maybe” and no proof. Here’s a post by **Crotalus** in that thread, which pretty much sums it up: > [@Crotalus](#): > > The article doesn’t really support its own headline. The details in the article describe findings of vulnerabilities and possibilities, which are not good, but which are not fraud. They create an opportunity for fraud, but do not prove or even suggest that fraud actually happened. Please note that in your cite, nowhere does the GAO state that fraud was found. The GAO report found weaknesses, then the blogger makes a leap to state that the weaknesses were exploited. There is no evidence that such is the case. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/172 "2005-12-21T20:12:26Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I think you’re right. Something’s fishy. Clearly, Democratic activists were traveling from polling station to polling station in an attempt to skew the exit polls and have the media report a big Kerry win to depress the Republican turnout. > > A theory every bit as plausible as the ‘Republicans rigged the election!’. It has the benefit of having exactly as much evidence in support of it - zero. I never said Republicans rigged the election, doofus. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/173 "2005-12-21T20:23:33Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > Look, are you guys deliberately seeking out ways to be obtuse, or are you really limited in the reading comprehension department? You wrote: “…sports are the only place one learns…”. > Please quote where I said sports are the **only** place. You can’t quote? That’s because I didn’t say that. Sports are a good place to learn to deal with adversity. I never said sports are the only such place. Big difference; one that apparently went right over your head. > Changing what someone said and then attacking their position based on changes _YOU_ inserted is dishonest. I’m happy to quote you, fuckstick, because it is a fucking moronic quote that should repeatedly be exposed to the cleasing light of scrutiny. > [@](#): > > My guess is that the lefties on this board never played competitive sports. When you’re on a sports team, you learn to lose, dislike it, but move on with your life. These whiners are gonna keep going until at least the 2008 elections. On behalf of the American people, I apologize. This means that you looked at what you consider to be the “whining” of lefties, and determine from that that lefties never played competitive sports. Conversely, it implies that had we played competitive sports, we wouldn’t be “whining.” By your logic, not only is there a causal relationship between playing competitive sports and not “whining,” but if you are given “whining” you can determine “no competitive sports.” If, in your model, there were multiple causes for “whining,” you would be unable to determine “no competitive sports” when presented with “whining.” Fuck you, you backpedaling whiner. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/174 "2005-12-21T21:12:17Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Fuck you, you backpedaling whiner. Again with the reading comprehension problems! I’ve backpedaled on…_NOTHING!_ I stand by this statement: > [@Me](#): > > My guess is that the lefties on this board never played competitive sports. When you’re on a sports team, you learn to lose, dislike it, but move on with your life. These whiners are gonna keep going until at least the 2008 elections. On behalf of the American people, I apologize. In fact, I’m rather proud of it, now that I see how hard you and Joe have strained, twisted, paraphrased and misquoted in failed attempts to discredit it. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/175 "2005-12-21T21:16:45Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Yup. Absolute garbage. Total kaka. Just like your argument, it’s a piece of shit. Shall I dig up right wing blogs to refute it? That would be equally pointless. Sure. Do it. Ignore the messenger; weigh the message on its own merits. > [@](#): > > It’s an OPINION piece, NOT a factual piece. Bullshit. It’s got falsifiable assertions. > [@](#): > > Your own fucking cite says that exit polls have never been academically studied for accuracy, and you accuse me of dismissing statistics with a wave of my hand. For those who’d like the full quote, “Although exit polls have not been academically studied [the phrase ‘for accuracy’ was added by **WeirdDave** for your convenience], both the logic behind them and experience suggest that we can use these surveys to predict overall results with very high degrees of certainty.” He then goes on to cite how they are used to verify elections abroad (as he quotes Republican Dick Morris). As you noted, he hasn’t updated it since he first put it on line. Rather than presume, as you did, that that means it’s bullshit (it’s bullshit because nobody found fault with it, perhaps?), I actually have e-mailed the author to find out if it has been published, and if he has gotten any feedback. > [@](#): > > I’m not doing that at all, but I am recognizing that statistics is one endeavor where the data is extrodinarily vulnerable to being massaged by the analyst. A 15% difference? yea, I’d say that was a smoking gun. A 4% difference? Not so much, especially when dealing with rubber numbers such as exit polls generate. You’re fishing. Except that they’ve never been wrong like that before. _And_ they were always wrong in Bush’ favor - all ten states went Bush’ way be percentages varying from 2 to more than 11%. > [@](#): > > Some types of polls are statistically valid, and with a fairly distributed sample you can get results that are indicative of what much larger groups of people think from a surprisingly small number of people polled. Straw polls and exit polls are not among the types of polls that have scientific or statistical validity. Do some homework before you spout off You should be able to find a cite for that, yes? > [@](#): > > I support the full revelation of any and all relevant facts to any official, bi-partisan committee officially appointed to investigate. Bending over backwards to accommodate a witch hunt, ehh, you’re on your own. […numerous entities have raised concerns about their security and reliability, citing instances of weak security controls, system design flaws…inadequate security testing…some electronic voting systems did not encrypt cast ballots or system audit logs, and it was possible to alter both without being detected…it was possible to alter the files that define how a ballot looks and works so that the votes for one candidate could be recorded for a different candidate…In another instance, a malfunction in a DRE system in Ohio caused the system to record approximately 3,900 votes too many for one presidential candidate in the 2004 general election…](http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05956.pdf) > [@](#): > > Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes! From either side! Christ, would you treat seriously with an article from Focus on the Family? Partisan cites are worthless because they come at each issue looking for data to support the conclusions they have already reached. Inevitably they find it. That’s true the world over, on any subject. How fucking circular! If it says there was a discrepancy, you conclude it’s biased! To find you an ‘unbiased’ source, you need something that says there was no discrepancy. Again, if it makes falsifiable assertions, _ignore the messenger_. If I had to dispute something Focus on the Family claimed, I’d have to debunk the message - prove that the message was wrong, not just dismiss it because it came from Focus on the Family! That’s stupid! > [@](#): > > You know something? If I argued in good faith that magnets cure cancer or that the Illuminati secretly run the world, I wouldn’t expect you to treat it as anything other than what it was: crazy. Arguing in good faith doesn’t add any credibility to the argument itself. That was in reference to your accusation that I was being deliberately misleading. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/176 "2005-12-22T01:59:57Z")
Bup, you’re making the same stupid mistake that Tracy Lord did. You link to the GAO report. The GAO report documented flaws in the electronic voting procedures which could be exploited. I think it’s great that we have that report, it should be used as a blueprint for closing these loopholes and for shoring up the security of the system(and I believe that it is). However, just because the GAO discovered some flaws which COULD have been exploited for fraud that does not mean that those flaws WERE exploited for voter fraud. The GOA report did not discover any fraud in the 2004 election. There is no PROOF, no EVIDENCE. Until you provide that, the whole thing is just another crackpot conspiracy theory. Jesus, it’s amazing how difficult folks like you seem to find that simple concept. I’ll tell you what. You’ve got all of your blogs, all of your partisan outrage to look at. Is there anything in all of that that you could take into a court of law and get a conviction with? Anything at all? The answer is no. All your partisan whining is just so much pissing against the wind without that. When come back bring facts. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/177 "2005-12-22T02:41:48Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I never said Republicans rigged the election, doofus. Then it’s a real good thing that I never accused you of that, Sparky. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/178 "2005-12-22T03:26:28Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > The GAO report documented flaws in the electronic voting procedures which could be exploited. I think it’s great that we have that report, it should be used as a blueprint for closing these loopholes and for shoring up the security of the system(and I believe that it is). However, just because the GAO discovered some flaws which COULD have been exploited for fraud that does not mean that those flaws WERE exploited for voter fraud. Exactly. It’s like when a new exploit in a piece of software is found and reported on. Just because it was found does not mean that it’s been used before publication. It might have been, but then you’d figure it’d be a known exploit once the malware started using it. Now, if it hasn’t been used, the exploit had better be fixed pretty damn fast because I guarantee someone will come out with a piece of malware targeting said exploit within a week. If the flaws reported by the GAO have not been fixed for the next election, _then_ I will start getting suspicious about the possibility, not for 2004 but 2006. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/179 "2005-12-23T04:52:03Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > Agreed. There should also be a corollary somewhere that goes: “Don’t accuse the opposition of cheating unless you have some actual, you know, _evidence_.” Why bring up sports? I thought you pubs were all cheerleaders. Bush should not have been in a place to run in 2004 because the 2000 election was stolen. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237/180 "2005-12-23T06:04:45Z")
> [@bannerrefugee](#): > > \ Bush should not have been in a place to run in 2004 **because the 2000 election was stolen.** (Bolding by me.) Ohforshit’ssake…I’ll repeat myself, which seems to be necessary in this thread: > [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > “Don’t accuse the opposition of cheating unless you have some actual, you know, evidence.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-my-shit-george-w-bush/336237.md?page=10)