# Ebay is banning listings of confederate flags and related items. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258 "2015-06-23T16:50:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/301 "2015-06-29T20:05:41Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Not going to go round and round on this. eBay is a host site for third party sellers. Between eBay and Amazon, there’s a virtual monopoly of such business in the US. For the two of them to foreclose third-party sellers is not just eBay saying “We’re not going to sell items bearing Confederate flags.” It’s them saying “We’re not going to let YOU sell items with Confederate flags.” > > Strong-armed and wrong-headed, as I have explained repeatedly. > > Wal-Mart’s position is a little more supportable, since they are just deciding what they will sell in their own store rather than trying to control others. > > On the other hand, it is leading to some funny outcomes: > > [Wal-Mart refuses to make “Heritage Not Hate” Confederate flag cake, happily makes ISIS flag cake](http://www.newschannel9.com/news/top-stories/stories/walmart-apologizes-making-isis-cake-man-denied-confederate-flag-design-18309.shtml). I see no difference. Most of what Wal-mart sells comes from third parties. The only difference is that eBay’s third parties are not companies, they’re private citizens. Well, except for the thousands and thousands of companies that sell through eBay. Ok, I’m back to seeing no difference. EBay is also a company, not a force of moral suasion (and can we stop using that word?). Companies act by taking items off the shelf, not by trying to persuade people that those items shouldn’t be sold. You may see EBay differently but I see no other way for them to act. > [@Spoke](#): > > I’m just saying let’s not stick our fingers in our ears and yell “RACIST FLAG! RACIST FLAG! RACIST FLAG!” Of course racists have used it. But it has also been used innocently as a marker for Southern identity, or for fans of Southern rock, or as a generic symbol of rebellion. Then they should get a different symbol, simple as that. This one has been co-opted by racists and is widely offensive. I did it before, people flying the flag know is seen as racist so they better not mind being confused as racists. If people want to be upset about that, **be upset at the racists** , not at the people who are offended by it. This whole thread is like blaming Jews for being offended at swastikas. No, Nazis fucked up the swastika image and racists fucked up the confederate flag. How’s about denouncing them with half as much energy as you’re denouncing eBay? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/302 "2015-06-29T20:14:48Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > How’s about denouncing them with half as much energy as you’re denouncing eBay? You should see my Facebook feed. I am firmly in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/303 "2015-06-29T20:32:33Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Pictures? What do you mean? You want me to fly to New York and do the Post’s job for them? They have one guy’s unsupported theory and an unchecked upon claim by the MTA spokesman. So I can safely assume the reporter and the newspaper don’t give a shit about the truth and just wanted to publish a story that contained the words "Confederate flag ". ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/304 "2015-06-29T21:10:25Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Not going to go round and round on this. eBay is a host site for third party sellers. Between eBay and Amazon, there’s a virtual monopoly of such business in the US. For the two of them to foreclose third-party sellers is not just eBay saying “We’re not going to sell items bearing Confederate flags.” It’s them saying “We’re not going to let YOU sell items with Confederate flags.” So start a new auction site. If eBay and Amazon are truly forcing their unpopular views on poor, voiceless third party sellers, people will doubtless flock to do business with you. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/305 "2015-06-29T23:16:39Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > So if I parody something, it means I don’t understand it? What an excellent question! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/306 "2015-06-30T00:26:08Z")
[Look, I didn’t say the backlash would be well-run…](https://youtu.be/fwkXhhoIvWc) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/307 "2015-06-30T08:02:00Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I suppose I would describe our difference as the difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt and assuming the worst in someone. No, it’s the difference between expecting people to show some sign of responsibility for their actions, or being OK with wafting through life oblivious to one’s semiotic weight. > [@](#): > > I look at that subway platform, and what I see is a nice gesture to noted citizen of New York who’s from the South. And a big “fuck you” to Southern Blacks. > [@](#): > > You see it, and see (I’m guessing) “Racists! KKK!” or maybe “Ignorant fools!” The latter. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/308 "2015-06-30T20:33:20Z")
I think [Andrew Young has the right of it](http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/29436049/young-on-flag): > [@](#): > > Instead of worrying about Confederate symbols, the man who walked with King recommends we pay attention to the substance of what’s taking place right now in 2015. > > “The flag is a symbol that means a lot of things to a lot of people when you get to institutions like Washington and Lee University,” claimed Young. “I admire that, I admire that. I admire the restoration of southern traditions in Washington and Lee University. The challenge for us is not to wipe out our past history but to learn to live together in the future.” > > Young also said he will take his cue from the families of the victims of the Charleston church shooting. He said they set the tone about healing and making the community better, not focusing on just trying to get rid of a symbol. He would rather see well intentioned people focus their energy on the real problems of today and not a big divisive flag fight. Now if he’s saying he wouldn’t even fight to remove the flag from the statehouse grounds, I disagree with him on that. The flag has no place there, nor on any courthouse grounds or other public building (except maybe a battlefield). But beyond that, I think we are getting into dangerous and divisive territory. I think we should shame those who display it. That works pretty well. The link I just put up to the goofball Confederate parade in Dalton, GA is a good example of shaming. I assure you, those dead-enders got as much derision in my Facebook feed as they probably did in yours. But trying to turn the flag into an unperson and rewrite its history such that anyone who displayed it ever is “RACIST!” well, that is doubleplus bad. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/309 "2015-06-30T20:59:11Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > But trying to turn the flag into an unperson and rewrite its history such that anyone who displayed it ever is “RACIST!” well, that is doubleplus bad. Is that as bad as the people who tried to rewrite its history to turn it into a generic symbol of Southern pride in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/310 "2015-06-30T21:02:03Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > (snip)Then they should get a different symbol, simple as that. This one has been co-opted by racists and is widely offensive. I did it before, people flying the flag know is seen as racist so they better not mind being confused as racists. If people want to be upset about that, **be upset at the racists** , not at the people who are offended by it. This whole thread is like blaming Jews for being offended at swastikas. No, Nazis fucked up the swastika image and racists fucked up the confederate flag. How’s about denouncing them with half as much energy as you’re denouncing eBay? That’s exactly my point. The time to defend that flag was back in the sixties when they allowed it to be co-opted by a bunch of hateful racists without a whimper. They let the KKK and Lester Maddox and George Wallace drag that flag through the sewer, and now we’re not supposed to complain about the stink when they bring it into the house? Fuck that noise, you had a chance to protect the flag and you fucked it up. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/311 "2015-06-30T22:18:04Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > That’s exactly my point. The time to defend that flag was back in the sixties when they allowed it to be co-opted by a bunch of hateful racists without a whimper. They let the KKK and Lester Maddox and George Wallace drag that flag through the sewer, and now we’re not supposed to complain about the stink when they bring it into the house? Fuck that noise, you had a chance to protect the flag and you fucked it up. I agree with that. The flag is hopelessly tied up with racism, and should come down at statehouses and courthouses, and on private property. The question is how to approach that goal. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/312 "2015-07-01T03:17:37Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I agree with that. The flag is hopelessly tied up with racism, and should come down at statehouses and courthouses, and on private property. The question is how to approach that goal. The first two should be easy. The third, impossible/unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/313 "2015-07-01T04:06:10Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > The first two should be easy. The third, impossible/unconstitutional. No, not impossible. What we’ve been discussing in this thread is the best way to do just that. Some seem to think attempted corporate censorship of the flag is the way to go. I think persuasion and shaming are better. The attempt to extirpate the flag by denying it access to the market is, it seems to me, born of the same sort of puritanical impulse which drives those who want to ban same-sex marriage: the desire to repress behavior in others which you yourself find morally objectionable. If eBay said it was no longer allowing rainbow flags to be sold on its site because its executives found them morally objectionable, how would you react? I am guessing many of my fellow Dopers would be pretty perturbed by that, and wouldn’t be satisfied with a “Well they have a right to do it!” response to their objections. And I’d agree with them. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/314 "2015-07-01T04:18:02Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > The first two should be easy. The third, impossible/unconstitutional. It may be impossible. It is only unconstitutional if one seeks to have the government enforce it. It might be possible for shaming to work in the way that producers of food no longer use caricatures of black people to sell watermelons. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/315 "2015-07-01T06:26:20Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > No, not impossible. What we’ve been discussing in this thread is the best way to do just that. Some seem to think attempted corporate censorship of the flag is the way to go. I think persuasion and shaming are better. No, that’s what _you’ve_ been discussing. You keep attributing that motive to those companies and repeating it as fact but I don’t think it’s part of a corporate plan to keep people from owning the flag, they’re simply deciding not to sell something offensive. It happens all the time. They held a meeting and said “do we really want to be associated with this?” not “how do we deny people these flags?” WalMart doesn’t carry Hustler magazine. By your reasoning, that would be corporate censorship and wrong. Instead, they should sell Hustler and hope that moral suasion convinces people not to buy it. You’re looping this argument about a motive that you thought up, assigned them, decided was fact, and decided was wrong. And anyone who doesn’t agree is automatically in favor of corporate censorship. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/316 "2015-07-01T06:53:50Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Knock it off. > > NOW! > EVERYONE, back off on any effort to make the discussion personal or to ascribe evil (or stupid) motives to one’s opponents. > > [/Moderating] Why am I the one who gets quoted? **Spoke** accused another poster of thinking everything was racist. Frankly, I’m tired of the double standard on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/317 "2015-07-14T23:27:58Z")
“Tom Petty on Past Confederate Flag Use: ‘It Was Downright Stupid’ “[The flag] shouldn’t represent us in any way,” Petty says. “We should be more concerned with why the police are killing black men for no reason”” > **[Tom Petty on Past Confederate Flag Use: 'It Was Downright Stupid'](https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/tom-petty-on-past-confederate-flag-use-it-was-downright-stupid-177619/2/)** > > Tom Petty has written a brutally honest mea culpa expressing regret for using the Confederate Flag on his 'Southern Accents' tour. > [@](#): > > I used it onstage during that song, and I regretted it pretty quickly. When we toured two years later, I noticed people in the audience wearing Confederate flag bandanas and things like that. One night, someone threw one onstage. I stopped everything and gave a speech about it. I said, “Look, this was to illustrate a character. This is not who we are. Having gone through this, I would prefer it if no one would ever bring a Confederate flag to our shows again because this isn’t who we are.” > > It got a mixed reaction. There were some boos and some cheers. But honestly, it’s a little amazing to me because I never saw one again after that speech in that one town. Fortunately, that went away, but it left me feeling stupid. ---
**Author:** ![KatyaLynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@KatyaLynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KatyaLynne)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/318 "2015-07-20T19:40:22Z")
\*If we ban one offensive flag than we need to ban them all. They aren’t banning the confederate flag. That flag was NEVER an official flag it’s the battle flag. You can try to erase history all you want which is what people are trying for, but it won’t really erase it. Those who do not know the past are condemned to repeat it.\* ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/319 "2015-07-20T19:53:05Z")
I’m sure this is pointless, as its probably been said all over this thread already, but for the sake of my daily “bang my head against the wall” dose… no one is trying to erase history. Instead, some are just finally deciding not to celebrate it. Kind of like how Germany doesn’t fly the swastika and claim it’s nothing but heritage. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/320 "2015-07-20T21:00:39Z")
> [@KatyaLynne](#): > > Those who do not know the past are condemned to repeat it.\* True, which is why it’s so offensive when people claim the civil war wasn’t about racism and slavery [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258.md?page=17)