# Ebay is banning listings of confederate flags and related items. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258 "2015-06-23T16:50:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/61 "2015-06-25T17:15:13Z")
Nothing is being “banned.” If the government of a state starts telling people they cannot fly a confederate flag, I’ll be right there with the rednecks protesting. > [@Spoke](#): > > If you think people should not fly the flag, then the weapon to use is moral suasion, not bans. Strong-armed suppression of this sort will only lead to backlash, I suspect. Amazon, _et al._, have been morally persuaded to stop carrying CF merchandise. The system works! Anyway, would you say the same thing about, say, non-dolphin-safe tuna? That people should be free to buy it and that the correct thing to do is to morally persuade them to stop? Or is Kroger free to stop carrying it if it thinks its customers would object? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/62 "2015-06-25T17:18:11Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Germany has a huge number of people that like US Civil War re-enactments. Consequently, German manufacturers turn out lots of Confederate reproductions-should these be banned as well? What do you mean, “as well?” Nobody’s stopping anybody from manufacturing confederate flags, uniforms, belt buckles, or confederate-themed beer cozies or anything else you want to manufacture. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/63 "2015-06-25T19:34:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m pretty sure they don’t sell swastika flags or SS memorabilia either… are you saying they should be required to? A store like Wal-Mart (large as they are) obviously has limited shelf-space… you’re not seriously arguing that they must stock every kind of flag, right? Online retailers don’t necessarily have limited space, but why must they be required to sell confederate flags (or any other symbol)? Must they sell racist screeds like the Turner Diaries? Must they sell bomb-making books? I’m not arguing that Wal-Mart (or eBay or Amazon) _must_ do anything. They can do what they want. This ain’t the USSR. What I am saying is that banning items bearing a Confederate flag is a wrong-headed approach. (Here I am really thinking more of eBay and Amazon, where third-party sellers list items.) I think a better approach is moral suasion. The use of the Confederate flag has decreased dramatically in these parts over the decades, and that is not the result of any ban, but because more and more people are coming to see the flag as offensive. Moral suasion. Bans, I think, lead to people getting their backs up, and that leads to backlash. So yeah, of course they _can_ ban such items. I just don’t think it’s the best approach to the problem. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/64 "2015-06-25T19:43:38Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I’m not arguing that Wal-Mart (or eBay or Amazon) _must_ do anything. They can do what they want. This ain’t the USSR. > > What I am saying is that banning items bearing a Confederate flag is a wrong-headed approach. (Here I am really thinking more of eBay and Amazon, where third-party sellers list items.) I think a better approach is moral suasion. The use of the Confederate flag has decreased dramatically in these parts over the decades, and that is not the result of any ban, but because more and more people are coming to see the flag as offensive. Moral suasion. > > Bans, I think, lead to people getting their backs up, and that leads to backlash. So yeah, of course they _can_ ban such items. I just don’t think it’s the best approach to the problem. To me the “ban” is the end result of the “moral suasion” – companies decide, based on the opinions of their customers, that to sell such products is more damaging to them then not selling them, so they stop. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/65 "2015-06-25T20:22:32Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I’m not arguing that Wal-Mart (or eBay or Amazon) _must_ do anything. They can do what they want. This ain’t the USSR. > > What I am saying is that banning items bearing a Confederate flag is a wrong-headed approach. (Here I am really thinking more of eBay and Amazon, where third-party sellers list items.) I think a better approach is moral suasion. The use of the Confederate flag has decreased dramatically in these parts over the decades, and that is not the result of any ban, but because more and more people are coming to see the flag as offensive. Moral suasion. > > Bans, I think, lead to people getting their backs up, and that leads to backlash. So yeah, of course they _can_ ban such items. I just don’t think it’s the best approach to the problem. The Civil War ended a century and a half ago. I think we’ve gone about as far as we’re going with suasion. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/66 "2015-06-25T20:27:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > To me the “ban” is the end result of the “moral suasion” – companies decide, based on the opinions of their customers, that to sell such products is more damaging to them then not selling them, so they stop. They don’t seem to be deciding based on “the opinions of their customers.” This is a top-down ban. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/67 "2015-06-25T20:28:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Civil War ended a century and a half ago. I think we’ve gone about as far as we’re going with suasion. You are simply wrong. Opinions have shifted a lot in my lifetime. Witness that Confederate flags are being lowered by conservative Republican politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/68 "2015-06-25T21:15:47Z")
… as part of _exactly_ the same coming-to-Jesus moment that is motivating Amazon, eBay, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/69 "2015-06-25T21:22:55Z")
I sent my collection of poetry to a publisher, and they sent me back a rejection slip. This censorship must stop! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/70 "2015-06-25T21:24:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … as part of _exactly_ the same coming-to-Jesus moment that is motivating Amazon, eBay, etc. And I explained my view of the difference between those things. Read my first post, lest we go round in circles. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/71 "2015-06-25T21:32:47Z")
I’ll clarify, though: The government removing the flag from public property does not prevent anyone from flying the flag themselves, or slapping it on their bumper. It is not coercive. There is no attempt to control or inhibit the actions of others. There is a coercive element at work when Amazon and eBay team up to deny people access to their sites. It is an attempt to restrict the sale of those items, by denying sellers access to the two biggest online outlets for third-party sales. That is fundamentally an attempt to control (and restrict) the behavior of others. And that is wrong-headed, in my view. It is the sort of thing that provokes an angry backlash. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/72 "2015-06-25T21:44:12Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > They don’t seem to be deciding based on “the opinions of their customers.” This is a top-down ban. Demonstrably top-down, FWIW. The customers haven’t had time for their collective opinion to turn the gears. Or were the customers _as a collective_ cool with the Confederate flag two weeks ago? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/73 "2015-06-25T21:46:02Z")
Anyone who wants to sell confederate merchandise can set up their own website to do so. Where’s the coercion? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/74 "2015-06-25T21:47:34Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > You are simply wrong. Opinions have shifted a lot in my lifetime. I am sure that will be of great comfort to the black citizens of southern states when the flags are taken down after they die. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/75 "2015-06-25T21:51:06Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I’ll clarify, though: > > The government removing the flag from public property does not prevent anyone from flying the flag themselves, or slapping it on their bumper. It is not coercive. There is no attempt to control or inhibit the actions of others. > > There is a coercive element at work when Amazon and eBay team up to deny people access to their sites. It is an attempt to restrict the sale of those items, by denying sellers access to the two biggest online outlets for third-party sales. That is fundamentally an attempt to control (and restrict) the behavior of others. And that is wrong-headed, in my view. It is the sort of thing that provokes an angry backlash. I seriously doubt Amazon or eBay are taking action for any other reason then they think it’s best for their bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/76 "2015-06-25T21:51:31Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > It is the sort of thing that provokes an angry backlash. Like what? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/77 "2015-06-25T22:02:33Z")
The whole response seems to be getting silly. Not having the flag flying over state property, sure, though I’d be happy to consider exceptions (memorials where the thing wasn’t done as ham-fistedly as in South Carolina.) Probably a good idea to change Mississippi’s state flag while we’re outraged. And sure, retailers are perfectly free not to sell or allow third parties to list such merchandise. But there have been calls to rename forts, remove statues, and generally remove all traces of the Confederacy from America. There might be people who are better known today and worthy of honor in Statuary Hall, for instance. But at least don’t act like removing a statue that few know about will actually do anything. The whole thing has quickly felt like it’s gone into major overreach mode on the left. And there’s the latest silliness of Apple removing Civil War games from their App Store because of the historically correct use of the flag in a strategy game. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/78 "2015-06-25T22:22:24Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Like what? Like people who would not have otherwise given a dam putting up Confederate flags because “You can’t tell me what to do!” In other words, you wind up with more Confederate flags, not fewer, which is contrary, I’d imagine, to the hoped-for result. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/79 "2015-06-25T22:27:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Anyone who wants to sell confederate merchandise can set up their own website to do so. Where’s the coercion? It’s an attempt to control behavior, by foreclosing people from access to the websites that control virtually all third-party sales. If I am not a merchant, but an individual seller, how do I now sell my toy General Lee? That is going to make people angry. It already has. When you are trying to persuade people, making them angry is not the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/80 "2015-06-25T22:29:45Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Like people who would not have otherwise given a dam putting up Confederate flags because “You can’t tell me what to do!” > > In other words, you wind up with more Confederate flags, not fewer, which is contrary, I’d imagine, to the hoped-for result. I really really don’t care if a bunch of idiots feel all spiteful and buy Confederate flags. I’m okay with racists outing themselves. If the stink is big enough, there are no excuses for anyone to claim it’s “heritage, not hate.” It’s a heritage of hate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258.md?page=5)