# Ebay is banning listings of confederate flags and related items. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258 "2015-06-23T16:50:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/81 "2015-06-25T22:53:15Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > It’s an attempt to control behavior, by foreclosing people from access to the websites that control virtually all third-party sales. If I am not a merchant, but an individual seller, how do I now sell my toy General Lee? > > That is going to make people angry. It already has. When you are trying to persuade people, making them angry is not the way to go. Sometimes an attitude of “fuck 'em” is perfectly warranted, and there still isn’t any coercion involved unless it the implied coercion of forcing Amazon and eBay to carry merchandise they do not wish to. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/82 "2015-06-25T23:05:49Z")
It’s kind of funny that I’m in here arguing with the “fuck the Confederacy” contingent, while over on Facebook, I am arguing with the “Heritage, not hate!” crowd. Both groups are just yelling past each other, rather than making any effort to understand someone else’s perspective. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/83 "2015-06-25T23:09:18Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > It’s kind of funny that I’m in here arguing with the “fuck the Confederacy” contingent, while over on Facebook, I am arguing with the “Heritage, not hate!” crowd. > > Both groups are just yelling past each other, rather than making any effort to understand someone else’s perspective. The perspective of people you think will start carrying a symbol of slavery out of spite? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/84 "2015-06-25T23:11:29Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > The perspective of people you think will start carrying a symbol of slavery out of spite? To the “Heritage, not hate!” people, it is not a symbol of slavery. It’s a symbol of Southern pride. That’s what I mean about not understanding (or even trying to understand) the other person’s perspective. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/85 "2015-06-25T23:13:49Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > To the “Heritage, not hate!” people, it is not a symbol of slavery. It’s a symbol of Southern pride. That’s what I mean about not understanding (or even trying to understand) the other person’s perspective. I know that’s their claimed perspective. I’ve been hearing it for decades. I just think it’s laughable bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/86 "2015-06-25T23:14:53Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > What I am saying is that banning items bearing a Confederate flag is a wrong-headed approach. (Here I am really thinking more of eBay and Amazon, where third-party sellers list items.) I think a better approach is moral suasion. By that logic, they should also sell shirts with the n-word. Usage of that word has been going down in recent decades and it will probably be gone sooner or later, so that makes it ok, right? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/87 "2015-06-25T23:18:39Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > To the “Heritage, not hate!” people, it is not a symbol of slavery. It’s a symbol of Southern pride. That’s what I mean about not understanding (or even trying to understand) the other person’s perspective. That lie has been hundred for too many decades now. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/88 "2015-06-25T23:20:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That lie has been hundred for too many decades now. So when the flag was put on the General Lee in the Dukes of Hazzard, it was intended as an emblem of hate? Like I said, people make no effort to understand other perspectives. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/89 "2015-06-25T23:21:54Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > By that logic, they should also sell shirts with the n-word. Usage of that word has been going down in recent decades and it will probably be gone sooner or later, so that makes it ok, right? Do they prohibit such sales? I honestly don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/90 "2015-06-25T23:23:17Z")
Here in MA, we have statues of General Hooker, General Grant, Co.l Robert Gould Shaw (commander of the first black army regiment in the Civil War), and many other Civil War commanders. I would bet that fewer than one in a hundred people even know who these people were. Face it, unless you have a personal connection, the events of 150 years ago are pretty remote. As for SC, how involved in the war were they? I recall that Charleston was never visited by Gen. Sherman (the “filth house burner”)-which is why it retains most of its antebellum charm. Isn’t it time to forget and forgive? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/91 "2015-06-25T23:23:39Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > So when the flag was put on the General Lee in the Dukes of Hazzard, it was intended as an emblem of hate? > > Like I said, people make no effort to understand other perspectives. I can understand someone’s perspective just fine, and still think that perspective is a bucket of horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/92 "2015-06-25T23:34:00Z")
[Apple pulling Civil War games showing Confederate flag from its apps](http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-civil-war-games-showing-confederate-flag-from-its-app-store/) Now it’s getting silly. This game of ‘look how racially sensitive we are’ is just dumb. OK, I get that people don’t like seeing this flag flown on public buildings but in an historical game? Come on! ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/93 "2015-06-25T23:36:37Z")
How come I have to understand the perspective of Bo and Luke Duke but nobody bothers to understand the perspective of the families of the four little girls murdered in the 16th Street Church Bombing in Birmingham in 1963? Or the families of James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwermer who were murdered in 1964 in Neshoba County, Mississippi for trying to register people to vote? If I sat here and listed every violent atrocity committed in living memory by people waving that flag, I’d be here all day. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/94 "2015-06-25T23:40:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I can understand someone’s perspective just fine, and still think that perspective is a bucket of horseshit. Yeah, I got that much, thanks. Meanwhile, over on Facebook I am trying to convince people that even though their intent in displaying the flag may be innocent, it will be perceived as hateful and racist. For the most part, they don’t see themselves that way, and they don’t _want_ to be perceived that way. Moral suasion. But by all means, keep yelling at them. That’ll be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/95 "2015-06-25T23:42:47Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > How come I have to understand the perspective of Bo and Luke Duke but nobody bothers to understand the perspective of the families of the four little girls murdered in the 16th Street Church Bombing in Birmingham in 1963? Or the families of James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwermer who were murdered in 1964 in Neshoba County, Mississippi for trying to register people to vote? If I sat here and listed every violent atrocity committed in living memory by people waving that flag, I’d be here all day. That is precisely the perspective I am trying to explain to the “Heritage, not hate!” crowd. Calmly. It seems to be working gradually. As I said, witness that the flags are being lowered by conservative Southern Republican politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/96 "2015-06-25T23:49:25Z")
Yes, please, keep reminding us that the feelings of white people who unthinkingly and stubbornly immerse themselves in racist culture is the most important consideration. You don’t think that’s been heard for about a century and a half now? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/97 "2015-06-25T23:51:20Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > For the most part, they don’t see themselves that way, and they don’t _want_ to be perceived that way. When I don’t want my action to be taken a certain way, I stop doing the action. It’s so weird, but it works! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/98 "2015-06-25T23:52:25Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Isn’t it time to forget and forgive? Only after Sherman finishes the job he started. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/99 "2015-06-25T23:57:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yes, please, keep reminding us that the feelings of white people who unthinkingly and stubbornly immerse themselves in racist culture is the most important consideration. You don’t think that’s been heard for about a century and a half now? You never did answer my question. Do you think the producers of the Dukes of Hazzard meant to send a message of racial hatred? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258/100 "2015-06-25T23:58:33Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > That is precisely the perspective I am trying to explain to the “Heritage, not hate!” crowd. Calmly. > > It seems to be working gradually. As I said, witness that the flags are being lowered by conservative Southern Republican politicians. Well, I gotta say that I think you’re friends’ perspective is a bucket of horseshit too. I mean I’m not typing in all caps or using exclamation points, and neither did **Miller** , so I don’t see how that’s yelling. And I wouldn’t go yelling at someone in public or being snotty to someone I was facebook friends with, if I was having this discussion. And for all I know, **Miller** wouldn’t either. But this tone-policing of yours isn’t going to convince me of anything, because, well, people should be outraged about murder and mayhem and terrorism. And it’s annoying for you to treat Heritage crowd’s perspective with kid gloves, but not treat the perspective of the people who suffered through one terrorist atrocity after another within living memory with the same kid gloves. Weighing a stupid fictional TV show with bad acting against real life murder and violence is trivializing horrifying acts that happened in real life. I don’t think we had talked about that in this thread yet, so I’m going to assume (for now) that wasn’t your intention. But that is the effect of what you are doing when you bring up something like the Dukes of Hazzard in that manner. So, don’t do that kind of stuff if you really want to convince me that your way of “moral suasion” is the way to go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebay-is-banning-listings-of-confederate-flags-and-related-items/723258.md?page=6)