# "Ebonics"/African American Vernacular English and education **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 8, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-african-american-vernacular-english-and-education/810250 "2018-03-08T17:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-african-american-vernacular-english-and-education/810250/181 "2018-03-15T23:37:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Because they would not be learning about standard English, which is the point of English class. Different cultural dialects belongs in a different class. Lots of the kids would be learning about SAE – that’s the whole point of this thread, to help make sure AAVE kids best learn SAE. And I don’t see why different dialects belong in a different class, especially when the whole point of learning about the other common dialects is to _help kids learn to speak SAE_. Just by common sense, I think learning about other dialects will strengthen every kid’s grasp of SAE, since they’ll start to understand the distinctions for many of the rules, and they’ll start to understand that SAE isn’t “proper English” while other dialects are “improper English”, but SAE is “proper SAE” and other dialects are proper for their dialects. I’m baffled why you’re so resistant to this, especially when you seem amenable to the goal of it. ISTM, just by common sense, that kids will better absorb language skills in a class specifically designed to teach language skills than another class. Even in the worst case, some English class time helps AAVE kids more than other kids. Why is that so much worse than some Social Studies class time helping AAVE kids more than other kids? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-african-american-vernacular-english-and-education/810250/182 "2018-03-15T23:45:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And I don’t see why different dialects belong in a different class, especially when the whole point of learning about the other common dialects is to _help kids learn to speak SAE_ And that is why I asked “How does learning about different dialects help a non-AAVE speaking kid learn SAE?” And the answer is “It doesn’t”, provided by another poster who I don’t want to quote since I don’t know the quoting rules anymore, but you can scroll to see the answer. > [@](#): > > Just by common sense, I think learning about other dialects will strengthen every kid’s grasp of SAE And I DON’T think that. So where does that leave us? > [@](#): > > Even in the worst case, some English class time helps AAVE kids more than other kids. Why is that so much worse than some Social Studies class time helping AAVE kids more than other kids? Why is it better? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-african-american-vernacular-english-and-education/810250/183 "2018-03-16T00:00:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > And that is why I asked “How does learning about different dialects help a non-AAVE speaking kid learn SAE?” > > And the answer is “It doesn’t”, provided by another poster who I don’t want to quote since I don’t know the quoting rules anymore, but you can scroll to see the answer. I think it’s entirely reasonable to believe that it might. > [@](#): > > And I DON’T think that. So where does that leave us? Hopefully to trust well-meaning professionals like the researchers in the OP. > [@](#): > > Why is it better? Wouldn’t kids better learn and absorb SAE in English class than other classes, in which the focus might be on something else? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-african-american-vernacular-english-and-education/810250/184 "2018-03-16T00:18:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think it’s entirely reasonable to believe that it might And I think it’s not reasonable to believe that it might. > [@](#): > > Hopefully to trust well-meaning professionals like the researchers in the OP I didn’t see in the article where the researcher recommended that. Can you point it out? > [@](#): > > Wouldn’t kids better learn and absorb SAE in English class than other classes, in which the focus might be on something else? Yes. That’s why SAE should be taught in English class. Not dialects of English. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-african-american-vernacular-english-and-education/810250/185 "2018-03-16T00:20:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > And I think it’s not reasonable to believe that it might. > > I didn’t see in the article where the researcher recommended that. Can you point it out? > > Yes. That’s why SAE should be taught in English class. Not dialects of English. To learn SAE, the kids need to be taught about AAVE as a dialect. That’s the whole point of the article. Teaching them about AAVE helps their SAE skills. We’re probably at an impasse here. You haven’t actually presented a why for your position, and I’m still baffled. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-african-american-vernacular-english-and-education/810250/186 "2018-03-16T00:29:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > To learn SAE, the kids need to be taught about AAVE as a dialect. That’s the whole point of the article. Teaching them about AAVE helps their SAE skills. > > We’re probably at an impasse here. You haven’t actually presented a why for your position, and I’m still baffled. I’m sorry, but are you saying that my kids need to be taught about AAVE in order for them to learn SAE? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-african-american-vernacular-english-and-education/810250/187 "2018-03-16T01:19:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m sorry, but are you saying that my kids need to be taught about AAVE in order for them to learn SAE? No. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-african-american-vernacular-english-and-education/810250.md?page=9)