# Ebonics:alive and well ! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 14, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860 "2003-06-14T17:01:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![yawndave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/43a26b/32.png) [@yawndave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yawndave)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/1 "2003-06-14T17:01:42Z")
Went to Best Buy the other day, looking for a lazy susan for my TV. The salesperson said: “Weout, I think…” I thought he was talking about a brand name, but he led me an empty shelf and said: “Yeah, weout.” Shouldn’t he have said “We be out.”? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/2 "2003-06-14T19:16:46Z")
Oh fo sho yizzle dizzle. What be a “lazy susan”? Dat be yo problem dizzle, fo shizzle. Damn homey. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/3 "2003-06-14T21:31:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Shouldn’t he have said “We be out.”? No. “We out” indicates that they are currently out of stock. “We be out” would indicate that they were continuously out of stock. That is the point people are making when they note that AAVE is a regualr dialect with rules and structure: what appears to the untrained ear as sloppy language, actually is used in a way to communicate effectively. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/4 "2003-06-14T23:44:15Z")
Word. Word. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/5 "2003-06-15T04:56:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > **No. “We out” indicates that they are currently out of stock. “We be out” would indicate that they were continuously out of stock.** Therefore, as yawndave was in a BestBuy, “We be out” would be used to describe an item in the sales flyer. It’s called BestBuy, not MostStock or BestService. “We are currently out of stock,” versus “We out.” White folk really **do** talk funny! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/6 "2003-06-15T07:05:45Z")
We met a young woman at a couple of Mardi Gras parades this year who spoke such thick dialect that a visiting English friend couldn’t understand a word she was saying. And I have to admit that even being fairly familiar with it, I had trouble myself. It seems to be moving farther and farther away from standard English, at least in this area. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/7 "2003-06-15T07:15:33Z")
That’s a regionalism, **butrscotch**. I don’t think everyone who speaks Ebonics nationwide speaks it the same way. Not everybody who speaks “normal” English does, so there’s no reason that shouldn’t hold true. I don’t know that it’s really ‘moving away’ from standard English either. Hard to say, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/8 "2004-02-25T05:36:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s a regionalism, **butrscotch**. I don’t think everyone who speaks Ebonics nationwide speaks it the same way. Not everybody who speaks “normal” English does, so there’s no reason that shouldn’t hold true. I don’t know that it’s really ‘moving away’ from standard English either. Hard to say, I guess. I 'm doing a presentation on the Ebonics controversy for my Sociolinguistics class and I was checking the boards to see what sort of attitudes I could find. (Out of curiousity.) I am gratified to find that the this reply to the OP (not to mention tomndeb’s reply). Keep up the good work, that’s all I had to say. ---
**Author:** ![Yamirskoonir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/c0e974/32.png) [@Yamirskoonir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yamirskoonir)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/9 "2004-02-25T17:08:27Z")
> [@sjc](#): > > I 'm doing a presentation on the Ebonics controversy for my Sociolinguistics class and I was checking the boards to see what sort of attitudes I could find. (Out of curiousity.) I am gratified to find that the this reply to the OP (not to mention tomndeb’s reply). > > Keep up the good work, that’s all I had to say. Also, don’t forget that “standard” English is really just a convenient fiction. While there may be a particular _dialect_ of English more readily accepted and used in the business world or international forums, English is English is English for whomever is speaking it. There is no one “correct” or “standard” form of English, and whatever English you happen to speak, all you’re speaking is a dialect based on your particular gender/culture/region/socio-economic status/education level/native speaker intuition/etc. IMHO, people who say that the English language is “degenerating” are ignorant asshats. The natural state of language is _change_, people! It’s just changing more slowly than it used to because we’re now a predominately literate culture – it’s harder to change something once it’s been written down! ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/10 "2004-02-25T17:28:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t know that it’s really ‘moving away’ from standard English either. I’ve seen a couple sociolinguists (most recently Peter Trudgill) claim that it is. But then, so are a lot of dialects. ---
**Author:** ![Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raymond_luxury_yacht/32/4099_2.png) [@Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raymond_Luxury_Yacht)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/11 "2004-02-25T20:16:24Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] “We be out” would indicate that they were continuously out of stock. \QUOTE] I’m not sure that “we be out” would be used. I’ve always taken it to meaning “let’s leave this place”, as in “we Audi 5000, yo. We be out. Peace.” To remark that an item is continuously out of stock, one might say “we out of that foshizzle 24/7.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/12 "2004-02-25T20:44:06Z")
Names have been changed to protect yo’ privacy: **Customer Service Rep** : Hello-this-is-Tameeka-how-may-ah-hep-you? **Ghanima** : Yes, I have a question about my credit card statement this month… **Tameeka** : OK. Washonay? **Ghanima** : I beg your pardon? **Tameeka** : Washonay? **Ghanima** : …uh, I’m sorry but I can’t understand you… **Tameeka** : WHA…SHO…NAY? **Ghanima** : ?? I’m sorry, but I reeeallly can’t…oh wait! What’s my name? OOoOhhhhhhh… I swear this actually happened. the funniest part was when she said very loudly and slowly “WHA…SHO…NAY?” I mean, not the slightest effort to enunciate or anything. It was a classic, I tell ya. Ebonics. Heehee. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/13 "2004-02-26T02:34:30Z")
It sure is funny when people speak differently than me. It’s especially funny when they’re black! Too bad everyone can’t talk the right way, just like me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_MacDairmuid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_MacDairmuid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_MacDairmuid)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/14 "2004-02-27T08:59:39Z")
> [@Yamirskoonir](#): > > Also, don’t forget that “standard” English is really just a convenient fiction. While there may be a particular _dialect_ of English more readily accepted and used in the business world or international forums, English is English is English for whomever is speaking it. There is no one “correct” or “standard” form of English, and whatever English you happen to speak, all you’re speaking is a dialect based on your particular gender/culture/region/socio-economic status/education level/native speaker intuition/etc. > > \… I disagree, **Yamirskoonir** , that “_there is no one ‘correct’ or ‘standard’ form of English._” There \*\*is \*\* a “standard” form of English. The rules of standard American English were laid out in the grammar readers and spelling workbooks we were supposed to have read during our K-12 years. I agree with you that “_whatever English you happen to speak, all you’re speaking is a dialect based on your particular gender/culture/region/socio-economic status/education level/native speaker intuition/etc._” But that one is speaking the dialect one was taught does not make one’s dialect correct. Dialects are not intrinsically correct modes of speech. I challenge anyone to provide a reputable reference that defines “warsh” as a verb involving water and soap. I also offer the challenge of showing how the final letters “eo” in a word can make the sound “ero”. And, if anyone can manage it, I would very much like a link to the dictionary **Ghanima** ’s Tamika used. My point is that just because one learned to speak a particular dialect of English does not mean one learned to speak English correctly. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/15 "2004-02-27T11:01:16Z")
I think the Brits, Irish, Canucks and Antipodeans here would be surprised to find that “standard American English” is the one correct form of English. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/16 "2004-02-27T13:57:54Z")
When I first moved to Maryland, I was unable to clearly understand the local dialect at first. It made for some uncomfortable transactions at the grocery store and such. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/17 "2004-02-27T14:24:52Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > It sure is funny when people speak differently than me. > > It’s especially funny when they’re black! > > Too bad everyone can’t talk the right way, just like me. Sarcasm noted, **Lamia** - and I hear you, it is a fine line. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/18 "2004-02-27T17:20:50Z")
> [@The MacDairmuid](#): > > I disagree, **Yamirskoonir** , that “_there is no one ‘correct’ or ‘standard’ form of English._” > > There \*\*is \*\* a “standard” form of English. The rules of standard American English were laid out in the grammar readers and spelling workbooks we were supposed to have read during our K-12 years. The problem I see here is that many of the rules you’re probably referring to are not part of _anyone’s_ natural use of English, and they were invented by ignorant pedants using faulty logic. Among the most egregious are never split infinitives, and never end a sentence with a preposition. > [@](#): > > But that one is speaking the dialect one was taught does not make one’s dialect correct. Dialects are not intrinsically correct modes of speech. So what is an intriniscally correct mode of speech? The dialect of the dominant social class? Because that’s usually what ends up being adopted as the standard, and it’s obviously not for any of its intrinsic properties. > [@](#): > > I challenge anyone to provide a reputable reference that defines “warsh” as a verb involving water and soap. And exactly which reference source have you christened as the final arbiter of linguistic correctness? Tell someone from North Midland that the word he’s been using his whole life to mean “wash” is incorrect. A word everyone within the dialect region has been using and understanding with no difficulty their whole lives. “Sorry…you’re incorrect. Only our pronunciation of that word is correct.” > [@](#): > > I also offer the challenge of showing how the final letters “eo” in a word can make the sound “ero”. Not sure where you got this from, but who cares how the word is spelled? I’m sure you go around pronouncing all the g’s in night, thought and gnome. Pronunciation changes naturally, and if what was once pronounced “eo” becomes “ero”, a thousand whining English teachers aren’t going to stop it. > [@](#): > > And, if anyone can manage it, I would very much like a link to the dictionary **Ghanima** ’s Tamika used. A dictionary is a compilation of words and their meanings for a particular dialect or group of dialects based on empirical observation. It is not the indicator of the correcntess of a language, because no language is more correct than any other. I would encourage Tamika to learn the standard accepted dialect of American English if she desires success in the US job market, but I would not insult her by telling her that her way of speaking is incorrect. So what dictionary did you use to write your post? What, you just assume all those words are in there? Better not risk it… But seriously, I don’t think any dictionary could convince you to radically alter your speech. Natural language dictates what goes into the dictionary, not vice versa. > [@](#): > > My point is that just because one learned to speak a particular dialect of English does not mean one learned to speak English correctly. What is speaking English correctly? It’s nothing more than using a particular dialect, and for some sticklers, conforming to some ridiculous rules like not splitting infinitives. As I said before, what you call the “correct” version of English gained its perceived legitimacy for its association with the dominant social class. A language is part of one’s cultural heritage, and to call someone’s “incorrect” is both insulting and scientifically meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/19 "2004-02-27T18:13:43Z")
I don’t see what the big deal over “weout” is. In much of the Midwest, “wṛout” would be found in nearly any demographic. Mind you, if somebody were to “transcribe” it, unless that person were a linguist, it would be “corrected” to “we’re out”, even though what was said was not actually “we’re out” but was far closer to “wṛout” (where the “ṛ” indicates an “r” that has a full syllable value on its own). ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860/20 "2004-02-27T18:18:23Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > I swear this actually happened. the funniest part was when she said very loudly and slowly “WHA…SHO…NAY?” I mean, not the slightest effort to enunciate or anything. I’d have had to have asked for a supervisor, since I probably would not have figured out what she intended to say. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ebonics-alive-and-well/181860.md?page=2)