# Eco-Terrorists?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2006, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068 "2006-01-29T12:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/1 "2006-01-29T12:08:15Z")
So not harming people, but their property is terrorism now? Freeing enslaved creatures from torture is too? I am going outside to hug a tree… :smack: WTF w/usa? ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/2 "2006-01-29T12:09:18Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > So not harming people, but their property is terrorism now? > Freeing enslaved creatures from torture is too? > I am going outside to hug a tree… :smack: > WTF w/usa? Que? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/3 "2006-01-29T12:35:32Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > So not harming people, but their property is terrorism now? > Freeing enslaved creatures from torture is too? > I am going outside to hug a tree… :smack: > WTF w/usa? Just as an fyi, it’s good form in the pit to expand a bit on what your problem is and you get extra points for providing a link to a news article if it’s about a current event. As for the terrorism question, yes. From Merriam Webster. > [@](#): > > Main Entry: ter·ror·ism > Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m > Function: noun > : the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion Doesn’t say anything about people. It certainly can be, but it’s not necessary. ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/4 "2006-01-29T13:22:32Z")
OK- I am fuming about the use of the word terrorism to describe actions- A.L.F. and E.L.F. and E.F. use it to describe their own activities- I would use ‘Sabotage’- because the “machinery” of oppression is damaged, not the people. Are the Humvees that got tourched terrorised? here is the thing that made me want to pit: [http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0F17F6395B0C728EDDA80894DE404482](http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0F17F6395B0C728EDDA80894DE404482) ps. sabot- Dutch wooden shoe, thrown into millworks for strike! ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/5 "2006-01-29T13:48:53Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > OK- I am fuming about the use of the word terrorism to describe actions- > A.L.F. and E.L.F. and E.F. use it to describe their own activities- > I would use ‘Sabotage’- because the “machinery” of oppression is damaged, not the people. Are the Humvees that got tourched terrorised? > > here is the thing that made me want to pit: > [http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0F17F6395B0C728EDDA80894DE404482](http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0F17F6395B0C728EDDA80894DE404482) > > ps. sabot- Dutch wooden shoe, thrown into millworks for strike! Yes, sweet cheeks, terrorists. Let’s see, there’s arson. Burning houses under construction because the homeowner had the audacity to own property where the bunny huggers decided they shouldn’t. Burning vehicles. Both have the great potential for loss of life, and the EF! assclowns have been damned lucky someone hasn’t died yet. Spiking trees to keep them from being cut. Again, lucky someone hasn’t been killed. Vandalism to heavy machinery. Tree squatting. Someone has died doing that, and it was the lunatic doing it. Too bad, so sad. Extortion, coercion, destruction of private property, economic loss, all to foster a political goal. Fits the definition of terrorism as I know it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/6 "2006-01-29T13:54:52Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Just as an fyi, it’s good form in the pit to expand a bit on what your problem is and you get extra points for providing a link to a news article if it’s about a current event. > > As for the terrorism question, yes. From Merriam Webster. > > Doesn’t say anything about people. It certainly can be, but it’s not necessary. [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com): > [@](#): > > [terrorism](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorism) > > The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons. > \* > Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.\* Emphasis added. Yep, terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/7 "2006-01-29T14:01:42Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > OK- I am fuming about the use of the word terrorism to describe actions- > A.L.F. and E.L.F. and E.F. use it to describe their own activities- > I would use ‘Sabotage’- because the “machinery” of oppression is damaged, not the people. Are the Humvees that got tourched terrorised? > > here is the thing that made me want to pit: > [http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0F17F6395B0C728EDDA80894DE404482](http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0F17F6395B0C728EDDA80894DE404482) > > ps. sabot- Dutch wooden shoe, thrown into millworks for strike! All the definitions of terrorism I’ve seen include the words: intimidate, coerce and violence. The alleged actions of the 11 indictees certainly qualify. While I may have some empathy for their cause, I cannot and will not condone violence, of any kind, in defense of those ends. There are acceptable methods of civil disobedience that can be used w/o endangering people or destroying property. If these people truly have the courage of their convictions they will spurn violent act and put themselves out there in the pursuit of their cause. Committing covert violent acts is cowardly and reprehensible. These are acts of vengeance, not of political dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/8 "2006-01-29T14:13:16Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > Burning houses under construction because the homeowner had the audacity to own property where the bunny huggers decided they shouldn’t. Burning vehicles. Both have the great potential for loss of life, and the EF! assclowns have been damned lucky someone hasn’t died yet. Not to mention that burning cars is terrible for the environment, perhaps worse than driving the car for its normal lifespan would be. And burning houses can get out of control (if that hasn’t happened already) further dangering the environment, and possibly local wildlife. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/9 "2006-01-29T14:24:01Z")
Lifetime Environmentalist here: I have to agree with the anti-bunny huggers, (I prefer the term tree-hugger, if you don’t mind 😉 ) The acts of some environmental groups does fall into terrorism. On the other hand when a Group like Green Peace has taken matters into their own hands to stop the direct dumping of toxic chemicals into waterways, is that terrorism or protecting the locals from an abusive corporation? I tend to side with Green Peace when they forced Ciba Geigy’s acts of extreme pollution and poisoning into the light. This act was however illegal. They stopped up the outflow pipe and blocked trucks going in and out of Ciba Geigy. Their illegal act actually stopped another illegal act that was poisoning a town. BTW: Ciba Geigy is a European own company that seemed perfectly happy to pollute the US as the European laws provide better protection and oversight to prevent pollution. Where do you draw the line between Terrorism and protecting? Of course the Best thing is when a group like Clearwater used a media & public information campaign to bring public pressure on companies like GE that was dumping PCB’s into the Hudson all those many years ago or Monmouth County Friends of Clearwater that got IFF caught with Aerial Photography of Rusty leaking Chemical Barrels, Strange liquids leeching into Sandy Hook Bay and constant air pollution violations. The Strange liquids turns out to be federally regulation dangerous and cancerous chemicals from IFF’s so called waste retainment system. In both cases, both groups stay 100% within the law and still made a change that cleaned up the public waters. Jim ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/10 "2006-01-29T14:26:07Z")
To the OP - When the IRA switched away from aiming for maximum civilian casualties, and started giving warnings in order to cause huge economic damage but minimal injury or death (the Docklands & Manchester bombs, for instance), did this cease to be terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/11 "2006-01-29T14:28:04Z")
Sabotage seems like the term that should be used. EcoTerrorism seems more like the destruction of food crops, tainting of water supplies ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/12 "2006-01-29T15:00:44Z")
While I’m not going to object strenuously, “terrorism” is commonly bandied about these days with the definition of “causing or instilling terror”, which implies that it causes other people to be “in terror”. Property destruction alone, IMO, isn’t enough to put people in a state of terror – there needs to be some component of intentionally targetted bodily harm. Yes, I’ll agree that such actions meet the dictionary definition of “coercion through violent action”; however, I also think it’s a bit hyperbolic. And, since I know how these things go, let me state adamantly – **I am not advocating on behalf of the ELF, etc.** I find their tactics wrong-headed, counter productive, and potentially (if not actually) dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/13 "2006-01-29T15:13:16Z")
> [@Digital Stimulus](#): > > And, since I know how these things go, let me state adamantly – **I am not advocating on behalf of the ELF, etc.** I find their tactics wrong-headed, counter productive, and potentially (if not actually) dangerous. Fine, you don’t like the ELF. What about the CLIT? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/14 "2006-01-29T15:30:35Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > Freeing enslaved creatures from torture is too? I hate this. Please tell me you have never taken any OTC or prescription drug, and that you will never need one in the future, okay? In fact, if you do need one, can we make sure that it was never tested on any animal? Unfortunately, this might result in your icky, painful death. That’s okay, right? Seriously. I am not in favor of animal torture, but I believe that the testing of drugs on animals is required if we aren’t allowed to experiment on humans. The funniest bit in _28 Days later_ was the fact that the plague was released by a bunch of ALFers. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/15 "2006-01-29T15:44:46Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Not to mention that burning cars is terrible for the environment, perhaps worse than driving the car for its normal lifespan would be. I was in L.A. when there was a story about the ELF torching Hummers. An article I read at the time said that the burning of the vehicles caused several times the amount of harmful pollution than the Hummers would have generated during their operational period. And then there’s the person who kidnapped a baby penguin from the London Zoo and (apparently) set it free. Way to kill an animal, dude! What’s the difference between an environmentalist and a developer? A developer wants to build houses in the forest. Environmentalists already _have_ houses in a forest. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/16 "2006-01-29T15:44:50Z")
It’s about time this type of activity was classed as terrorism and suppressed in the harshest manner possible. I openly applaud any effort to contain the [idiots](http://www.animalrights.net/archives/year/2005/000110.html) who terrorise the employees and their families at such facilities as Huntingdon Life Sciences. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/17 "2006-01-29T15:48:45Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > Fine, you don’t like the ELF. What about the CLIT? I’m given to understand that they’re non-violent, being tree-dwellers and all. So, no problems. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/18 "2006-01-29T16:11:53Z")
Let’s see what [this source](http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/arterror.htm) has to say about the bunny-defenders: > [@](#): > > June 16, 2005 Newton-Linford, UK: A family escaped unhurt when ALF fanatics left an explosive device in their carport. The wick had been lit, but had gone out. The family had been targeted before, with car tires slashed and ALF graffiti painted on their house. A former owner worked for a UK pharmaceutical company. The current owners have no ties to animal testing. > > … > > December 26, 2004 Sylmar, CA: The home of the public information officer of the Los Angeles city Animal Services Department was spray-painted with slogans, including “ALF has eyes on you” and “Resign (expletive).” Her photo and office location and phone number were posted on a website affiliated with ALF, along with those of other Animal Services employees. They are listed under the heading “Players/Targets” which includes images of a target, bullet holes, and ammunition for rifles. The apartment of another Animal Services employee was also vandalized recently. > > … > > November 28, 2004 Sandal, Wakefield, England: Activists painted the letters “ALF” on the front of a home formerly owned by a man whose company dealt with waste from research labs. The address was posted on an activist list, and the current owners, one newly diagnosed with cancer and who have no links to animal research, have been hounded by protestors since they moved in. They are pleading with animal rights activists to leave them alone. > > … > > October 8, 2004 Yoxall, Staffordshire, England: Police suspect animal rights activists for desecrating and removing most of the remains from the grave of an 82 year old woman, whose family breeds guinea pigs for medical research. The Hall family, who run the breeding farm, local villagers, and others with connections to them have been under attack by animal rights activists for five years. They have been suffered hate mail, malicious phone calls, hoax bombs, a pedophile smear campaign and arson attacks. Local businesses have been forced to stop dealing with the family, cars and homes have been vandalized, and villagers terrorized by night visits from activists. Police are investigating, and state that at least two people were involved in the desecration. The Animal Liberation Front praised it. While denying responsibility, a spokesman said: “This is direct action on an inanimate being. Nobody has been harmed. If this stunt does not get that farm closed, maybe the next one will.” > > … > > September 12, 2004 London, England: The (London) Times obtained a five page “hit list”, dated July 2004, that was circulated among animal rights extremists against the use of animals in biomedical research. More than 150 named individuals, including 21 children, are targeted for violent attacks, harassment, and intimidation. The list includes home addresses and phone numbers of 87 employees of Huntington Life Sciences and companies connected to it, 47 employees’ wives, and 21 children. The document gives concrete suggestions for many kinds of attacks, and further gives advice on avoiding detection for extremists seeking more violent forms of protest.against the people listed. The document states “Whatever you do, just do it and show them no mercy…make these perverts suffer…You can be as extreme as you like…the possibilities are endless…” That’s just a tiny fraction of the incidents collected on that website. Sure as hell sounds like terrorists to me. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/19 "2006-01-29T16:30:06Z")
Thankfully, before virtually all biomedical companies are forced out of the country, the UK Government has recognised that such activity cannot continue. [MI5 is reportedly infiltrating domestic terrorist networks.](http://www.animalrights.net/archives/year/2004/000371.html) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/20 "2006-01-29T16:32:32Z")
And from the same site, how’s this for “freeing enslaved creatures from torture”: > [@](#): > > August 25, 2005 Manawatu, New Zealand: Animal rights activists stole six huntaway dogs, a bitch and five two week old pups, some of which carry a fatal genetic disease that also strikes people and kills young children. The dogs were donated to the Massay University Veterinary school, which was working with the Adelaide Women’s and Children’s Hospital in hopes of find a cure. The activists stole the records of the dogs medical treatment, claiming they were “breeding records” and sprayed the buildings with animal rights slogans. The bitch, an unaffected carrier, was to be returned to her home after the pups were weaned. Several of the puppies will have the full course of the disease and without treatment will waste away and die fairly quickly. Others may be carriers, which, if they survive to be bred, could spread the disease to other dogs. > > … > > January 1, 2005 Hever, Kent, England: Seven incendiary devices believed to be display-strength rockets were found on the ground where the Old Surrey Bristow and West Kent Hunt was meeting. Members of the hunt smelled burning and uncovered the set, time-delay fuses. West Kent police extinguished the fuses and are investigating. Over ninety horses were taking part in the hunt, including children on ponies, and there were many people on foot in the area, along with cars and horse-boxes. Graeme Worsley, joint master of the hunt, said: “If you have a firework going off under a horse and its rider you are talking about a potential fatality. These people have a blatant disregard for the safety of anyone, horses or people. It is terrorism, it is nothing to do with animal welfare.” The group has been attacked before by hunt saboteurs throwing fireworks and harassing the hunt and hunt followers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068.md?page=2)