# Eco-Terrorists?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2006, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068 "2006-01-29T12:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/41 "2006-01-29T23:44:58Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I have a much stricter definition of terrorism than the typical usage. “Terrorism” isn’t terrorism without\* terror-\*-without actually being terrifying. Is anyone actually cripplingly afraid of ALF? Is anyone intended to be? If not, it may be belligerence, or militancy, but terror it ain’t. Yes, I am afraid one of these brain-dead cretins is going to firebomb some “property” and kill somebody someday. That makes it “terrorist.” ELF is composed of nothing but scum, and if they or anybody like them ever tries to destroy or vandalize **my** property, they will become part of the eco-system as mulch. **booklyn** , you are using resources that this planet desperately needs to conserve, like air. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/42 "2006-01-29T23:46:58Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I have a much stricter definition of terrorism than the typical usage. “Terrorism” isn’t terrorism without\* terror-\*-without actually being terrifying. Is anyone actually cripplingly afraid of ALF? Is anyone intended to be? If not, it may be belligerence, or militancy, but terror it ain’t. Did you read my post (number 18)? Did you follow the link given and read the long, long list of terroristic actions committed by members of ALF, ELF and their compatriots? What exactly do you make of [this charming little missive](http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/Letter%20of%20Intimidation.htm), sent to an employee of a targeted company? > [@](#): > > A letter sent to Shankar Hariharan, the entire Forest Labs Management, and Par Pharmaceuticals: "We have been watching and following you Shankar, your wife Puspha, and your kid Ram. We’ve followed you to and from Forest Labs, xxx Commerce Drive, Hauppauge. We were watching you when you bought your new Mercedes-Benz. Wewent inside and told them they were accepting money from a murderer, and allowing a killer to drive from his home to the vivisection lab to kill animals. They were very sympathetic. Almost too sympathetic: Vehicle Id: WDBNG84J34A41xxxx. We even know the person who sold you the car - Helen Lamb (631 xxx-xxxx ex 23 [hlamb@competitionbmw.com](mailto:hlamb@competitionbmw.com)). > > We’ve followed you again when you’ve gotten oil changes at the dealership (Competition BMW at xxx East Jericho Turnpike in Smithtown). One of the workers took down your plate number, memorized it, and said that if he ever gets the opportunity to work on your car, he’s putting something other than new oil in it. > > Puspha, we were spying on you the whole time you were in Macy’s at the Smith Haven Mall and several times when you went to Sunny Farms (xxxx Jericho Tpke). We talked to the technician (Danny West) from Suburban Exterminating Service when they came to your house on June 15th. We followed you to the OB-GYN that day. We’ve seen you go into Starbucks. Your account number with 3M healthcare is HBWxxxx. We know about your account at Greenpoint Bank in Commack. Your credit card number is xxxxxxxxxxxx4265. > > We’ve seen you go into your doctor’s office (373 Route xxx) Esenbike Bek (NY lic no xxxxxx). We’ve contacted your doctor at 516 xxx-xxxx and told them about Forest’s refusal to cut ties with Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS). Ourknowledge about your life has gotten a little to personal - we know you \*\*\*\*your wife with pink Durex condoms. Too bad the animals you poison will neverget to enjoy sex. Think about that the next time you’re \*\*\*\*ing your ugly wife. > > We realized you’ve left Forest now, so you can rest safe. Or can you? You left Forest to become the Chief Scientific Officer of Par Pharmaceuticals. > > Since you have a history of using HLS, we suspect you might use them withyour new company. Hopefully you’ve got some brains! Want to really stop thestalking - convince your new company to come out with a press statement andpost it on your website ([parpharm.com](http://parpharm.com)) informing us that Par Pharma willNEVER contract to Huntingdon Life Sciences/Life Sciences Research under anycircumstances. Or would you like us to talk to them for you? First we’llstart contacting them at work, and then at home. And we won’t stop visitingthem or you. Save yourself and us the time. > > WE KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU: > > Shankar, Pushpa, and Ram > x Mike Lane > Smithtown, NY 11787 > xxx xxx xxxx > > end of comunique ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/43 "2006-01-29T23:48:37Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I have a much stricter definition of terrorism than the typical usage. “Terrorism” isn’t terrorism without\* terror-\*-without actually being terrifying. Is anyone actually cripplingly afraid of ALF? Is anyone intended to be? If not, it may be belligerence, or militancy, but terror it ain’t. > [@The Times](#): > > In a posting on an internet site, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has told its supporters that any academic, student or company connected to Oxford is a legitimate target, irrespective of whether they are involved in animal research. > **[The Times & The Sunday Times](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/)** > > News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times If true, it seems fairly clear to me that this is a clear threat intended to frighten people. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/44 "2006-01-29T23:48:57Z")
Booklyn, it would do you good to remember that the idea of personal and private property in America is one of the things that sets us apart form other countries. Destroying my personal property in the name od some bullshit ideal like saving the fucking universe doesn’t make it any less terrorizing, or any less wrong than blowing up the rainbow warrior, or burning out animal labs. Honestly, you’re not going to find a whole lot of support for your argument here. It is terrorism. These groups have terrorized untold numbers of people by their tactics, destroying personal and private property, scaring innocent people, blowing up homes, burning out cars. Fuck’m. Oh, and ignore WeirdDave. He has a tendency to lose his head when it comes to “libruls”. Sam ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/45 "2006-01-29T23:55:23Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Yes, I am afraid one of these brain-dead cretins is going to firebomb some “property” and kill somebody someday. That makes it “terrorist.” ELF is composed of nothing but scum, and if they or anybody like them ever tries to destroy or vandalize **my** property, they will become part of the eco-system as mulch. > :rolleyes: > **booklyn** , you are using resources that this planet desperately needs to conserve, like air. :wally SILENUS- is it ok that the US government bombs 25,000 civilians to death for you?Or how about not signing Kyoto to ensure you can continue to pollute not just the web but the world outside it as well? How is that not terrifying? It is the NIMBY people like your self that think that there is an “away”, and that they own something that will be the death of us all. Going to dinner, will return to thread after. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/46 "2006-01-29T23:58:36Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Wow, could you cite that. It would greatly strengthen my arguments against these nut jobs. > > Jim [Here ya go](http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200203%5CCUL20020308a.html) GaWd, WTF are YOU babbling about? Who said anything about liberals? Are you saying that ALF and ELF are organizations that most liberals support? I never thought of them as anything other than terrorists, and have seen no indication that the vast, vast majority of liberals see them the same way. Am I wrong about that? Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/47 "2006-01-30T00:04:19Z")
OK, booklyn, I’ll slow it down for you. (by the way, misatributing quotes is a banable offense here) What exactly is it that make me a “corporate shill” (I’m self employed, BTW) and a “fascist”. Is it just because I disagree with you, and these are invective terms you like to hurl at anyone who disagrees with you? Or is it because I think the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/48 "2006-01-30T00:05:42Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I never thought of them as anything other than terrorists, and have seen no indication that the vast, vast majority of liberals see them the same way. Which should read, of course "I never thought of them as anything other than terrorists, and have seen no indication that the vast, vast majority of liberals **don’t** see them the same way. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/49 "2006-01-30T00:07:31Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > That being said, ELF, EF, Etc. have stated and followed the directive of not doing violence to people, but to their property. So karo syrup in the gas tanks, spiking trees, firebombing Hummer dealerships and ski resorts when people are not present or directly harmed. Look, twithopper - there is only LUCK between being an arsonist and being a murderer. What part of “people die in fires,” or “fire is **not** a controlled method of destroying anything,” do you not understand? How many people have been injured, or killed, in carefully set fires, let alone firebombings? I contend you can’t give me an accurate count, even in the past years. In part because minor injuries won’t make news, because **they’re so fucking common, you brain-dead twithopper**. Likewise, do you even remember the recent firestorm in Nevada where a scheduled, monitored and planned burn off got out of control? So, you don’t think _firebombing_ property puts people at risk? I hope you live in a single family residence so it could be firebombed without you feeling terrorized. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/50 "2006-01-30T00:10:58Z")
Dave, I think I said that our misguided OP should ignore you, and that you tend to lose you head in conversations such as these. What did it seem like I was saying? Sam ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/51 "2006-01-30T00:11:08Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > That being said, ELF, EF, Etc. have stated and followed the directive of not doing violence to people, but to their property. Are you out of your fucking gourd?!? When houses and vehicles burn, what do you think happens? The owner files an insurance claim, you douchebag. And where does the insurance company get the money to pay the claim? From the premiums every other policy holder pays to that company. So a little thing like torching a lot full of Hummers actually does cost somebody else in the higher rates to insure themselves against psychos like you. I’m not making any accusations, but you sound very apologetic for them. And Halliburton? Christ, your ilk will mention them in any ill-conceived concept you can! How many homes and dealerships do they own? Way to stick it to Cheney. :rolleyes: When these little pricks actually grow up a bit and (maybe) realize how the real world works outside their dorm rooms, they’ll see that a crushing majority just wants them to quit hurting innocent people. I’d ask them how they feel about this, but much like any other terrorist group, there is no contact. Just posts to websites and vitriol in press releases. Of course, like any other terrorist group, they have just enough face time to embolden them. It’ll only escalate from here. All I can say is I’d like a few moments alone with any of the members that can sac up for a throwdown. I won’t call for executions, just some public responsibilty. That should serve the same purpose. :wally ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/52 "2006-01-30T00:33:12Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > :SILENUS- is it ok that the US government bombs 25,000 civilians to death for you? Cite? > [@booklyn](#): > > Or how about not signing Kyoto to ensure you can continue to pollute not just the web but the world outside it as well? How is that not terrifying? Yup. If just the US would sign the treaty, it would negate the pollution spewed from all the other countries. For all your ranting against the US, you’re giving a lot of weight to the effect of a factory in Pennsylvania on air quality in Beijing and Calcutta. Of course, we needn’t worry about those countries, as the US is the sole supplier of pollution, correct? How are those targeted goals looking, anyway? I think I saw in a report or two the the agreed levels won’t be anywhere close to being achieved. Must be because we didn’t sign the treaty. :rolleyes: It’s fine and well to try to save the world. But what you’re looking for won’t be accomplished with things like the Kyoto Protocol. Good intentions are woefully inadequate when dealing with something like controlling the behavior of 6 billion people. Not to mention natural changes that have been happening for 6 billion years. But if you think increasing mileage and converting the soot from a smokestack will save everyone, go for it. It’s noble, but improbable, IMO. And I’m still waiting for someone to be honest enough to say they’re fighting for human existance, not the environment. Look, the environment will be here long after us. If we fuck it up bad enough, Ole Ma Nature will simply slough us off. Hell, the dinosaurs couldn’t make it for the most part, and they never drove a Charger. (Unless you take The Flinstones as historical documentation, which I suspect the ELF may be prone to.) It’s funny, though, that after that event, we still have life here on Earth. Life adapted. Life still evolved. There is absolutely nothing we can do that will kill the Earth. We could set off every single nuclear weapon right now, and in the blink of an eye (cosmically) life will begin to expand again. Just not with humans. At least we know ourselves. And isn’t that the main issue? Man is killing the Earth. Why do anything to prolong our existence? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/53 "2006-01-30T00:54:43Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > :wally > SILENUS- is it ok that the US government bombs 25,000 civilians to death for you?Or how about not signing Kyoto to ensure you can continue to pollute not just the web but the world outside it as well? How is that not terrifying? > It is the NIMBY people like your self that think that there is an “away”, and that they own something that will be the death of us all. > Going to dinner, will return to thread after. You might want to signal those turns, **booklyn**. WTF are prattling on about with the whole “bombing civilians” crap and what does it have to do with the subject at hand anyway? Others have addressed the Kyoto nonsense. The rest of your ramblings seem to indicate that you hate the idea of private property and all that goes with it. Care to confirm this? Please try to stay focused. I know it’s hard to keep the three neurons you still have firing in sync, but it would be a big help to us. Thanks. By the way…how many animals died because of your dinner? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/54 "2006-01-30T00:57:23Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > :wally > SILENUS- is it ok that the US government bombs 25,000 civilians to death for you?Or how about not signing Kyoto to ensure you can continue to pollute not just the web but the world outside it as well? How is that not terrifying? > It is the NIMBY people like your self that think that there is an “away”, and that they own something that will be the death of us all. > Going to dinner, will return to thread after. How do you equate the two. Civilians die in wars, be the war just or unjust. It is up to the UN and World Court to hold the US accountable if we went to far. For a disorganized group to start firebombing is a terrorist act and an act that cuases terror. I do have some sympathy for the idea of stopping Hummer production, but this is not the way to do it. Kyoto is not a balance act, it has many good points but also allows China far more leeway to pollute than the USA. Get rid of the loopholes, so it does not come across as a punishment for the US and I would agree to most of it. The entire world should work towards renewable resources and clean water and air, but Kyoto might not be the answer. Go to Google and Search for [Clearwater Hudson River PCB](http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Clearwater+Hudson+River+PCB). Read about how change is suppose to take place. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/55 "2006-01-30T01:18:04Z")
In no way is this post intended to defend or support terrorism by any group, environmental, animal-rights, “pro-life”, or other. However, purely in the interest of accurcay, I’d like to point out that to date, (crosses fingers) no life has been lost from environmental or animal-rights actions or attacks in the United States. [After 30 minutes of searching, I can’t provide a cite for that at the moment, but it was widely discussed in newspapers after the last annual report on terror.] That’s not true of “pro-life” terror, racist hate terror, white supremacy terror, and various quasi-religious group terror. Simple truth, from the US Governments So while I support our authorities looking into envoronmental and animal-rights terrorism, I definitely think it should be very far down on the list, purely based on cost/benefit analysis. As far as I’m concerned, _after_ they’ve got Osama and buddies, the white supremacists, and the churches that support abortion bombings, they’re welcome to go bug the phones of the bunny-huggers. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/56 "2006-01-30T01:25:32Z")
In no way is this post intended to defend or support terrorism by any group, environmental, animal-rights, “pro-life”, or other. However, purely in the interest of accurcay, I’d like to point out that to date, (crosses fingers) no life has been lost from environmental or animal-rights actions or attacks in the United States. [After 30 minutes of searching, I can’t provide a cite for that at the moment, but it was widely discussed in newspapers after the last annual report on terror.] That’s not true of “pro-life” terror, racist hate terror, white supremacy terror, and various quasi-religious group terror. Simple truth, from the US Governments So while I support our authorities looking into envoronmental and animal-rights terrorism, I definitely think it should be very far down on the list, purely based on cost/benefit analysis. As far as I’m concerned, _after_ they’ve got Osama and buddies, the white supremacists, and the churches that support abortion bombings, they’re welcome to go bug the phones of the bunny-huggers. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/57 "2006-01-30T01:33:00Z")
I know I’m coming to this late, but for **booklyn** , if the purpose of the [Two Elk fire](http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/5532156/detail.html) at Vail wasn’t terrorism, what was it? The ELF claimed reponsibility. Here’s how they concluded their email claiming responsibility: > [@nutjobs](#): > > This action is just a warning. We will be back if this greedy corporation continues to trespass into wild and unroaded areas. For your safety and convenience, we strongly advise skiers to choose other destinations until Vail cancels its inexcusable plans for expansion. > — Earth Liberation Front (E.L.F.) It’s pretty clear to me that this was an act of terrorism. It couldn’t have been sabotage, because they didn’t object to the lodge or ski patrol headquarters, they objected to the proposed (at the time\*) expansion of Vail’s skiable terrain. \*It’s since been approved, and many think the act of terrorism by ELF was a large factor in it’s approval. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/58 "2006-01-30T01:37:23Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > By the way…how many animals died because of your dinner? I forgot to touch on this. I wonder where he gets the electricity to light his lamp and power the computer and modem to post this crap? And how does the ISP he subscribes to power their equipment to allow him to connect? How does he get to work to pay for the connection? If he drives to work, he’s full of shit. He uses gas. If he bikes to work, he’s full of shit. It takes polluting production to make the components of the bike. If he walks to work, it takes polluting manufacturing to make the shoes. Unless he’s dressing in leaves and walking to a field somewhere to literally live off solar power, he’s busted. Of course, seeing as he can somehow hit the right keys to make and post shit, there must be some nutrition entering his body. Even if he’s extreme enough to live by eating only natural-grown seeds and nuts, he’s depriving that species he eats from procreating, and is in effect denying further growth by killing the offspring of the innocent plants. Who the fuck does he think he is to deny an innocent, loving plant from continuing their existence? And what right does he have to wear clothing whatsoever? he’s stealing from nature. If he’s wearing hemp clothing, he’s stealing and killing hemp plants for his own use. What an asshole. He cares nothing of nature nor the environment. I’m appalled. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/59 "2006-01-30T02:47:43Z")
:: extends her left hand to **duffer’s** right :: Gotta give the ELF/ALF/etc. nutcases one thing – they make all the rest of us look sane and reasonable, and bring us together on at least one issue. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/60 "2006-01-30T02:49:38Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > :: extends her left hand to **duffer’s** right :: > > Gotta give the ELF/ALF/etc. nutcases one thing – they make all the rest of us look sane and reasonable, and bring us together on at least one issue. > > 😃 Always amazing, isn’t it? Jim [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068.md?page=4)