# Eco-Terrorists?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2006, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068 "2006-01-29T12:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/101 "2006-01-31T03:36:07Z")
Way back in the summer of 1997, I went to the National Fire Academy for a just-released course which had been jointly developed by the USFA and the US DOJ. It was put together in response to a number of incidents including the WTC bombing, an ALF set fire at Michigan State University, the Atlanta family planning clinic and gay bar bombings, and the Murrah building bombing, along with 20 other significant occurrances listed in the first few pages of the student manual. Here is the US Department of Justice definition for terrorism: > [@](#): > > A violent act or an act dangerous to human life, in violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any segment to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/102 "2006-01-31T04:10:23Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Anyone who uses the words “oppressed” and “enslaved” when talking about lab rats has no basis at all for complaining about the use of the word “terrorism” when talking about the ELF. On the other hand, anyone who uses the word “problematize” needs to be taken out and shot, so we should keep the above in its proper perspective. MILLER- So my word choice negates any basis for complaint? And seals my doom at the hands of cryptofacists? ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/103 "2006-01-31T04:22:51Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > MILLER- So my word choice negates any basis for complaint? And seals my doom at the hands of cryptofacists? Not at all. I, for one, would be very much interested in hearing about these oppressed and enslaved rats, for example. ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/104 "2006-01-31T04:24:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’ve dramatically missed the point, **booklyn**. I’m saying that an eco-nut who burns down a housing development or a bunch of Hummers is responsible for the risk to the firefighters who have to deal with the fire. It’s impossible to know, when you start a fire, what’s going to happen as it continues to burn and if it will become a threat to the people who have to douse it (even if you’re REAL sure it won’t hurt anybody else :rolleyes:). I see what you mean now. Thanks. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/105 "2006-01-31T04:26:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’ve dramatically missed the point, **booklyn**. I’m saying that an eco-nut who burns down a housing development or a bunch of Hummers is responsible for the risk to the firefighters who have to deal with the fire. It’s impossible to know, when you start a fire, what’s going to happen as it continues to burn and if it will become a threat to the people who have to douse it (even if you’re REAL sure it won’t hurt anybody else :rolleyes:). I see what you mean now. Thanks. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/106 "2006-01-31T04:24:33Z")
[QUOTE=booklyn] > [@Miller](#): > > MILLER- So my word choice negates any basis for complaint? And seals my doom at the hands of cryptofacists? _Stands in rapturous anticipation to **Miller** ’s response to this after offering a semi-olive branch_ Kids, don’t try this at home. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/107 "2006-01-31T04:31:56Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Not at all. I, for one, would be very much interested in hearing about these oppressed and enslaved rats, for example. Read Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIHM by Robert C. O’Brien ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/108 "2006-01-31T04:37:11Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > Read Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIHM by Robert C. O’Brien That’s a tad over your reading level, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/109 "2006-01-31T04:43:22Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > That’s a tad over your reading level, isn’t it? ::Now I am learning! :: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/110 "2006-01-31T04:51:22Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > MILLER- So my word choice negates any basis for complaint? Since your complaint is rooted in word choice, yes, it does. Your initial complaint, as near as meaning can be salvaged from the incomprehensible wreckage of your posts, is that terrorism is a ridiculous hyperbole. The accuracy of this statement aside, the fact that you framed it (such as it was) in terms of equal-if-not-greater hyperbole suggests that you are not mentally or emotionally capable of accurately judging the severity of the circumstances in question. In other words, anyone who talks about animals being slaves with any sort of seriousness is such an idiot you can pretty much discount anything else he has to say. > [@](#): > > And seals my doom at the hands of cryptofacists? Chill out, Wavy Gravy. The closest thing to a cryptofascist in this thread is **Updike** , and it’s not so much that he’s cryptic, he just expresses himself poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/111 "2006-01-31T04:54:37Z")
Oh, and **duffer** , I’ll take your semi-olive and offer you half a dove in return. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/112 "2006-01-31T04:55:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The closest thing to a cryptofascist in this thread is **Updike** , and it’s not so much that he’s cryptic, he just expresses himself poorly. In what way have I expressed myself poorly? Seriously, I am open to constructive criticism, so let’s hear it. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/113 "2006-01-31T05:01:30Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > Read Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIHM by Robert C. O’Brien Why read the book when I can just rent the DVD? ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/114 "2006-01-31T05:15:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Since your complaint is rooted in word choice, yes, it does. Your initial complaint, as near as meaning can be salvaged from the incomprehensible wreckage of your posts, is that terrorism is a ridiculous hyperbole. The accuracy of this statement aside, the fact that you framed it (such as it was) in terms of equal-if-not-greater hyperbole suggests that you are not mentally or emotionally capable of accurately judging the severity of the circumstances in question. > > In other words, anyone who talks about animals being slaves with any sort of seriousness is such an idiot you can pretty much discount anything else he has to say. > > Chill out, Wavy Gravy. The closest thing to a cryptofascist in this thread is **Updike** , and it’s not so much that he’s cryptic, he just expresses himself poorly. MILLER- My apologies for not writing to the degree of clarity necessary for you. My posts are indeed wreckage. So, for the record, my complaint/pit- The use by the aforementioned groups of the term ‘ecoterrorist’ to discribe their activities ties them linguistically, therefor ideologically, to terror. The word “Sabotage” could applied at least to some of the actions here to for described; and would not tie these groups to terror as the M.O., but change through direct action with personal responsibilty. Not hiding, not terrorising. As I said in multiple posts- Do not support these groups or condone their actions, or violence as a positive tool for social change. In addition to this idea, there is the idea expressed herein that the word ‘terrorist’ is being bandied about quite liberally these days. That is the hyperbolic part. Kind of like \are not mentally or emotionally capable of accurately judging the severity of the circumstances in question.\? Thas’ a big claim mister. Put it in a frame. In regard to animal slavery- that is a post all on it’s own, no? I am sorry about my lack of written clarity. This is the first message board I have particpated in. I will attempt to be more lucid in future postings. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/115 "2006-01-31T05:19:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Oh, and **duffer** , I’ll take your semi-olive and offer you half a dove in return. It’s on the grill. As a guest I expect you to bring a good botle of wine. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/116 "2006-01-31T05:30:37Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > MILLER- My apologies for not writing to the degree of clarity necessary for you. You won’t. Neither will you for the rest of us. Stop digging the hole. > [@booklyn](#): > > My posts are indeed wreckage. Seems we’re getting somewhere. > [@booklyn](#): > > So, for the record, my complaint/pit- The use by the aforementioned groups of the term ‘ecoterrorist’ to discribe their activities ties them linguistically, therefor ideologically, to terror. So when is your dictionary coming out? We need to have access to the definitions of these words. Or does the definition change too fast for publication? > [@booklyn](#): > > The word “Sabotage” could applied at least to some of the actions here to for described; and would not tie these groups to terror as the M.O., but change through direct action with personal responsibilty. Not hiding, not terrorising. As I said in multiple posts- Do not support these groups or condone their actions, or violence as a positive tool for social change. Your freshman English and Social Sciences professors should be punched in the tit. > [@booklyn](#): > > In addition to this idea, there is the idea expressed herein that the word ‘terrorist’ is being bandied about quite liberally these days. **That is the hyperbolic part.** No, the bolded part is hyperbolic. In fact the OP should be bolded, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/117 "2006-01-31T06:30:14Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > Read Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIHM by Robert C. O’Brien I see your “…Rats of NIHM” and raise you “The Plague Dogs” by Richard Adams! But are either of these books legitimate cites about the treatment of research lab animals? And for **asterion** , [The Plague Dogs](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084509/) @ IMDB 😃 ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/118 "2006-01-31T06:34:26Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > You won’t. Neither will you for the rest of us. Stop digging the hole. > \> One big hole around here, and I a’int diggin’ it… > > Seems we’re getting somewhere. > > \> I am learning. > > So when is your dictionary coming out? We need to have access to the definitions of these words. Or does the definition change too fast for publication? > > \>Gay-1890=happy, Gay-1990=homosexual- for instance. :wally > So words remain fixed in time, set in stone because you cannot keep up? Where is the “we” stuff coming from? Are you royalty or do you have a mouse in your pocket? > Etymology of terrorism: Terrorism > > Terrorism is not simply a modern phenomenon. Rather, the word, along with terrorist, first appears in English in 1795 in reference to the Jacobins of France. They ruled France in what was called the Reign of Terror from 1793-94. By 1798, the term was being applied generally to anyone who attempted to achieve political goals through violence and intimidation. > The word is thought to have been coined by the Jacobins themselves, but the French terrorisme is not recorded until 1798. If the Jacobins did coin it, they are the only ones to have used it self-referentially. The term has always had negative connotations since then. > > Etymology of sabotage: Sabotage > It is suggested by some that this term for wanton destruction derives from striking workers throwing wooden shoes, or sabot, into machinery in order to destroy it. This belief was popularized when it was repeated in one of the Star Trek movies. > > Sabotage does indeed derive from the French sabot and from striking workers, but not in the sense suggested. While sabot can mean a wooden shoe, it can also mean a metal shoe or clamp for holding a piece of metal in place (it can also mean a type of anti-tank ammunition, but that’s another story). The second sense is what sabotage is derived from. > > Specifically, sabotage comes from the practice by striking French railway workers of cutting the sabot that held railroad tracks in place. The word appears in English in 1910 and early use specifically refers to the French railroad strikers. > > From [http://www.wordorigins.org/](http://www.wordorigins.org/) > Your freshman English and Social Sciences professors should be punched in the tit. > > \>Savage! > > No, the bolded part is hyperbolic. In fact the OP should be bolded, IMO. Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![booklyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@booklyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklyn)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/119 "2006-01-31T06:44:38Z")
[QUOTE=crowmanyclouds] I see your “…Rats of NIHM” and raise you “The Plague Dogs” by Richard Adams! \> I’ll see your “Dogs” and raise you with an “Animal farm” But are either of these books legitimate cites about the treatment of research lab animals? \> I think it will be hard to find balenced texts- bias too prevelent. You could ask the people who test stuff and they would justify their actions, same with activists. Sort of kidding with NIHM… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068/120 "2006-01-31T06:47:10Z")
> [@booklyn](#): > > Please explain. \*\*Do you still maintain that ELF & ALF are not terrorist? \*\* Forget the semantics, do you still maintain these nuts are not terrorists? It is morons like this that allow the Bushes & Cheneys of the world to deride all environmental actions and tear apart the acts that have started cleaning up America. They have done more harm to good honest groups like the Humane Society than anyone short of a Cock Fighter. In the USA, the Green party is treated as a fringe nut job party because the Right Wing of the Republican Party and the Irresponsible Corporations that prefer to pollute to maintain a high profit Margin use these extremist against legitimate groups. Jim [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eco-terrorists/342068.md?page=7)