# Economic Base for Harry Potter's World **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850 "2006-10-09T22:52:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/21 "2006-10-11T02:40:36Z")
But wouldnt’ he have the keys to the dungeons etc? I am trying to figure out a plot line for book 7. I bet Godric Gryffindor’s sword plays a part, perhaps the potions book as well, and of course, that dratted locket. I wonder if Hogwarts will be seized in some way and the final battle played out there-that seems logical. Also, I can’t help but feel that Fawkes will come back to Harry–and perhaps AD will too, in some way? Not alive, but maybe he left Harry some helpful advice. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/22 "2006-10-11T15:16:41Z")
> [@](#): > > but maybe he left Harry some helpful advice [Dumbledore as Ghost]_“Plaaaaastics.”_[/DaG] ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/23 "2006-10-11T16:44:56Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] And that’s another thing: there were only 2 male wizards born in July of that year? How small is this world? Sure, the World Cup was huge, but that was international. Only ocassionally does Rowling say that HP doesn’t know a student-we’ve covered the size of Hogwarts elsewhere, but this just struck me. Even if you consider the qualifier for the prophecy (thrice defied the Dark Lord)–still only 2? No wonder they have to marry Muggles… [/QUOTE] I speculated in another thread that witches and wizards can probably use magic for extremely effective birth control. Birth rates go down in times of uncertainty, and I could see why most wizards wouldn’t want to have children if Voldemort were running rampant. I would also expect to see a huge spike in births in the wizarding community starting around nine months after Voldemort’s defeat, and perhaps a recent decline caused by his resurgence. ---
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/24 "2006-10-11T17:05:08Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] I speculated in another thread that witches and wizards can probably use magic for extremely effective birth control. [/QUOTE] Using the well-known spell _Coitus interruptus_! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/25 "2006-10-11T17:35:35Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] [Dumbledore as Ghost]_“Plaaaaastics.”_[/DaG] [/QUOTE] Thanks a lot. Now I have to explain to HR why I need to go to the ER due to drowning in a mouthful of coffee, AND to IS about why I need a new keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/26 "2006-10-11T18:01:46Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] I speculated in another thread that witches and wizards can probably use magic for extremely effective birth control. Birth rates go down in times of uncertainty, and I could see why most wizards wouldn’t want to have children if Voldemort were running rampant. I would also expect to see a huge spike in births in the wizarding community starting around nine months after Voldemort’s defeat, and perhaps a recent decline caused by his resurgence. [/QUOTE] I was all set to give a serious answer to this, and then **aegypt** posted. Bwah! So, are there birth defects and congenital anomalies present in the wizarding world? Tonks is an Animagus, which seems genetic; Harry is a Parselmouth, ditto. But what of withered arms or the like? Hunchbacks? (trying to think of witchy deformities besides warts and hooked noses–which leads my mind into the prejudice and marginalization of groups, but I digress). and what of communicable disease? is there no HIV, no measles, no common cold? If you look at this stuff long enough, it seems there are many levels, no? Or maybe I need to get out more. Fred and George seem to be in light industry of a kind-who makes their novelties and otehr products? Does Stan Shunpike’s brother\* work day shift making Skiving Snackboxes? Does Hannah Abott’s mum\*\* manage the Instant Darkness product line? - I don’t know if he has a brother… \*\*I’m pretty sure she has a mum. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/27 "2006-10-11T18:04:07Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] [Dumbledore as Ghost]_“Plaaaaastics.”_[/DaG] [/QUOTE] You crack me up. Plastics, Benjamin! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/28 "2006-10-11T18:22:37Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] So, are there birth defects and congenital anomalies present in the wizarding world? Tonks is an Animagus, which seems genetic; Harry is a Parselmouth, ditto. But what of withered arms or the like? Hunchbacks? (trying to think of witchy deformities besides warts and hooked noses–which leads my mind into the prejudice and marginalization of groups, but I digress). and what of communicable disease? is there no HIV, no measles, no common cold? If you look at this stuff long enough, it seems there are many levels, no? Or maybe I need to get out more. [/QUOTE] There are certainly physical problems that can’t be repaired by magic, like Dumbledore’s withered hand. And it doesn’t seem possible to make a Muggle into a wizard by magic, either (being a Squib could be considered to be a birth defect, in a sense). My guess would be that there are birth defects and congenital anomalies, but magic can be used to fix some of them, like it is used to heal broken bones. I don’t know if magic would work against bacteria or viruses. I suspect it does work against at least some of them, just from the fact that we don’t see colds and flu going around Hogwarts as you would expect in a group of kids. They may be more isolated than most schools, but most of the kids do go home for Christmas, and could pick up colds or flu then and bring them back to Hogwarts. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/29 "2006-10-11T18:41:18Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] So, are there birth defects and congenital anomalies present in the wizarding world? Tonks is an Animagus, which seems genetic; Harry is a Parselmouth, ditto. [/quote] Tom Riddle got Parselmouth genetically. Harry’s ability was thrust upon him when he was about a year old. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > But what of withered arms or the like? Hunchbacks? (trying to think of witchy deformities besides warts and hooked noses–which leads my mind into the prejudice and marginalization of groups, but I digress). and what of communicable disease? is there no HIV, no measles, no common cold? Well, there’s Spattergroit, and Dragon Pox. Rowling has said that wizarding folk are vulnerable to some diseases to which Muggles are not. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > If you look at this stuff long enough, it seems there are many levels, no? Or maybe I need to get out more. No! By all means, stick around! These conversations are really a great pleasure. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Fred and George seem to be in light industry of a kind-who makes their novelties and otehr products? Does Stan Shunpike’s brother\* work day shift making Skiving Snackboxes? Does Hannah Abott’s mum\*\* manage the Instant Darkness product line? Fred and George import that from Peru. They _could_ employ a division that handles their international consignments of raw materials, I suppose, but I think they’re a somewhat small outfit to be tackling that, when the Ministry has a complete Department already in place to deal with such matters. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > - I don’t know if he has a brother… > > \*\*I’m pretty sure she has a mum. I couldn’t tell you about any other Shunpikes who might be lurking about, but you might want to re-check your sources as to Hannah Abbot’s possession of a mum. I’ll have a look in my copy of _HBP_ this evening. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/30 "2006-10-11T19:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Tonks is an Animagus Nitpick: Metamorphmagus. Being an animagus (like the Marauders and McGonagal) is learned through very difficult training, though it does seem that what animal you turn into might be inborn (though not necessarily genetic). And the twins make their own products, using raw materials they get from all over the place. Some of it probably is from Peru, but remember, they were also experimenting with doxy toxin from 12 Grimmauld Place. They do have employees, but I think that they’re all in the retail end of the business: No sane wizard would mess around with the kind of stuff Fred and George work with. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/31 "2006-10-11T19:12:07Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] In short, everyone seems to be: 1. idle rich 2. in government 3. producing luxury items in shops 4. part of the service industry What’s missing? Anyone in agriculture or factory work. Seems plausible enough to me, given how easy it seems for wizards to acquire the basics. [/QUOTE] But you’re forgetting that wizardly food has not been conjured out of thin air: at Hogwarts, it’s been cooked by elves and then teleported to the dining hall. Throw in the Ministry of Magic being part of Britain’s official government, which implies a budget – and Hermione’s parents exchanging pounds for galleons, which demonstrates a rate of exchange. It seems fairly obvious that wizards are buying food from Muggles. Probably wholesale by a specific Ministry department to minimize magic-muggle mingling. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/32 "2006-10-11T19:52:26Z")
[QUOTE=Barbarian] But you’re forgetting that wizardly food has not been conjured out of thin air: at Hogwarts, it’s been cooked by elves and then teleported to the dining hall. [/quote] Point of nitpick. In _HBP_, Harry remarks upon the fact that as a witch, Merope Gaunt-Riddle would have been able to provide food for herself and her impending spawn by conjuring it out of thin air. Dumbledore responds that yes, she could have; and only conjecture can explain why she didn’t do so. Also, in _GoF_, we see Mrs. Weasley conjuring a bechamel sauce from the tip of her wand, while the potatoes peel themselves. > [@Barbarian](#): > > Throw in the Ministry of Magic being part of Britain’s official government, which implies a budget – and Hermione’s parents exchanging pounds for galleons, which demonstrates a rate of exchange. > > It seems fairly obvious that wizards are buying food from Muggles. Probably wholesale by a specific Ministry department to minimize magic-muggle mingling. I’m not prepared to embrace that conclusion, on account of my nitpick. I suspect that Muggle money moves in and out of the magical world through Muggle-borns financing their Hogwarts-related expenses, and witches and wizards paying for goods and services on those occasions when they must do business with Muggles (riding the Underground, renting a campsite, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/33 "2006-10-11T20:03:04Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Nitpick: Metamorphmagus. Being an animagus (like the Marauders and McGonagal) is learned through very difficult training, though it does seem that what animal you turn into might be inborn (though not necessarily genetic). And the twins make their own products, using raw materials they get from all over the place. Some of it probably is from Peru, but remember, they were also experimenting with doxy toxin from 12 Grimmauld Place. They do have employees, but I think that they’re all in the retail end of the business: No sane wizard would mess around with the kind of stuff Fred and George work with. [/QUOTE] Oy. You knew what I meant… The powder is from Peru. All I’m saying is that even if Fred and George run a small outfit, they had to be doing business with someone. Someone upthread had said that there is little to no manufacturing in Harry’s world-fair enough, but who mines the stuff to make the powder? Who harvests the crops to make the potions or hunts the animals/critters to for other ingredients? There has to be a way for their economy to exist. Anyone want to discuss if their economy needs to grow to survive? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/34 "2006-10-12T01:04:44Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] I couldn’t tell you about any other Shunpikes who might be lurking about, but you might want to re-check your sources as to Hannah Abbot’s possession of a mum. I’ll have a look in my copy of _HBP_ this evening. [/QUOTE] Hannah Abbot’s mum died during HBP. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/35 "2006-10-12T04:02:00Z")
> [@](#): > > So, are there birth defects and congenital anomalies present in the wizarding world? Tonks is an Animagus, which seems genetic; Harry is a Parselmouth, ditto. But what of withered arms or the like? Hunchbacks? (trying to think of witchy deformities besides warts and hooked noses–which leads my mind into the prejudice and marginalization of groups, but I digress). and what of communicable disease? is there no HIV, no measles, no common cold? If you look at this stuff long enough, it seems there are many levels, no? Or maybe I need to get out more. Oh, no! Don’t scoop me for Prophesy 2007! I have an outline for a whole talk on disability in Harry Potter! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/36 "2006-10-12T13:24:43Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] Oh, no! Don’t scoop me for Prophesy 2007! I have an outline for a whole talk on disability in Harry Potter! [/QUOTE] Do tell! (or I’ll _accidently_ drop some Veritaserum in you coffee…). For book 7, what if Snape is given some Amortentia and falls for Hermione? Hey, it could happen! ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/37 "2006-10-15T03:56:04Z")
I’ve tried to post this twice but Peeves keeps taking it. Third time’s the charm. For example: Is Harry’s scar understood as a dueling scar rather than a disfiguring scar? Is being a squib a form of cognitive impairment? > [@](#): > > what if Snape is given some Amortentia and falls for Hermione? This way lie flame wars. But my bet is on Tonks and Ginny, if we’re going to this route. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/38 "2006-10-15T15:10:19Z")
Hmm. I’ve been pondering Snape for some time. I just can’t make up my mind about him. If he truly is a bad guy, then Rowling is an obvious, cheap shot author who should be made to do hard time for just this cardinal sin alone. If he is not, everything gets more interesting. I was being facetious re Hermione. Tonks is more probable and more intriguing. Unfortunately, Tonks and Lupin are seen to be holding hands at AD’s funeral, and her hair is bright pink again, so that’s out. I cannot see Snape wasting time with a 16 year old girl, aka Ginny. Here are some of my thoughts post book 6: Bill and Fleur’s wedding. It will serve either as Harry’s re-entry in the wizarding world and, if it is peacable and lovely, will serve as a foil for the darkness that comes. OR Tragedy will strike at the wedding and Molly will be the one killed (accidently). I choose Molly because we never hear of her place on the clock. Also, she is the glue that holds so many people together, not just her family, but Harry ad Hermione and most of the Order. She truly has been a rock, and Rowling likes to remove foundations of support, doesn’t she. I am not a “shipper” per se, but I can see both Ron and Ginny getting killed and Harry and Hermione getting together–problem is, I can’t see all that happening in one book. So, that’s out. I also don’t get why it’s OK for Harry to be OK with Herm and Ron to come with him, but not Ginny. It’s almost like Rowling is trying to shove Ginny back into an archetype of chivalry etc. It bugs me. There is no reason Voldy wouldn’t use Herm or Ron against him-and IMO it would be Ron that is chosen. His skills aren’t as good, he is not as smart etc. He has definitely become second banana–in the first book, he had skills that Harry needed. Now, not so much. I think that to be Snape at this point would be hell. I do think that AD had every reason to trust Snape-I think Harry is incorrectly ascribing the reason to Snape’s remorse. I doubt Snape had much remorse re what happened, I also doubt that AD was naive enough to count upon remorse as being sufficent for anyone, much less Snape; there must be another reason for AD’s trust. So, now Snape, forced to do AD’s bidding, all the while it looking like he is working for Deatheaters, has “declared” himself and now must fight on the side he doesn’t want to, i.e. Voldemort’s. Not a good position to be in. And who in the Phoenix will trust him enough to listen to his side? Harry has done the Order a grave disservice in his prejudice against Snape. There are things that Snape knows, that might help Harry, dontcha think? I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that AD has left a message or info for Harry. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Fawkes finds his way to Harry either as a messenger or as a help. I am concerned that this book will weigh about 20 pounds. They all sit on a shelf, each one thicker than the last. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/39 "2006-10-15T20:46:47Z")
> [@](#): > > For book 7, what if Snape is given some Amortentia and falls for Hermione? Then we all gouge our eyeballs out, trepan ourselves, and pour bleach into the hole. Unless you’re talking about Alan Rickman, in which case it’s just the brain-bleaching, and we can spare our eyeballs. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850/40 "2006-10-15T21:16:01Z")
Is **Chronos** female? (I thought you were a dude, man…) 🙂 Yum, Alan Rickman…No brain bleach etc here for me! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-base-for-harry-potters-world/375850.md?page=3)