# Economic solution to the Gaza conflict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778 "2014-07-22T21:52:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/101 "2014-08-01T18:05:08Z")
Prayers for your safety and that of your family, **Alessan**. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/102 "2014-08-01T18:32:54Z")
> [@](#): > > **Ibn Warraq** > I’m sure you know where the saying “next year in Jerusalem” comes from. It wasn’t something that started in “the early 1900s.” > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What? You seriously don’t know what the phrase “next year in Jerusalem” is in reference to, why it’s said by every Jewish person in the world once a year and why this has been going on for a couple of thousand years? I’m genuinely shocked. Ok, it’s the phrase used to end Passover every year and is perhaps the best example of how the Jews long, long before Herzl thought of themselves as a nation and believed there homeland to be Israel. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/103 "2014-08-01T19:46:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Prayers for your safety and that of your family, **Alessan**. > > Regards, > Shodan When you pray for them, pray also for the safety of the Gazans. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/104 "2014-08-01T20:34:56Z")
Good point. Consider it done. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/105 "2014-08-01T22:57:43Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I’m not so convinced. > > If you have a family - you’re very very interested in going where your children are safe and can have a chance at a future (or at least, I am). > > If the offer came with appropriate support and a country to live in, my guess would be that there’d be a LOT of families that would jump at it. And the children would very quickly be assimilated into the new culture. > > There would be lots that wouldn’t of course - but then, as the numbers within the Strip dwindle and become more hard core, so the military options for Israel become better and better right? > > The ultimate outcome of such a programme, naturally, is that Israel eventually gets the whole area. Is that acceptable? Yeah. $50,000 each person for a family of 6 is $300,000. That would buy you a pretty nice life in a lot of countries. The idea that all Palestinians care about is killing Jews, I think, is just prejudice. They care about the same things all people do: safety. Security. A chance to make a better life for themselves, and their children. They don’t they have that living in Gaza, under Israeli occupation. The crappy rockets, and the tunnels, are desperate attempts to change their situation. If you offered a real chance at a better life, they would take it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/106 "2014-08-01T23:51:07Z")
[QUOTE=LinusK] They don’t they have that living in Gaza, under Israeli occupation. [/QUOTE] Well, except that Israel isn’t occupying Gaza, and the only recently has even sent troops in there because of the whole rockets thingy. > [@](#): > > The crappy rockets, and the tunnels, are desperate attempts to change their situation. Well, that’s certainly one way to spin things. Personally, I think that the crappy rockets and tunnels are what’s keeping their situation so bad. > [@](#): > > If you offered a real chance at a better life, they would take it. Some would, some wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/107 "2014-08-02T01:49:41Z")
Did Germany “occupy” the Jewish ghettos during WWI? What’s your definition of occupy? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/108 "2014-08-02T02:21:19Z")
You know, I wasn’t convinced of your argument, at first, but that Nazi analogy really won me over. I don’t know why more people on the internet don’t compare groups to Nazis. It seems like a winning argument there! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/109 "2014-08-02T02:33:18Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Did Germany “occupy” the Jewish ghettos during WWI? > > What’s your definition of occupy? Every time I hear someone make this argument I nearly piss myself laughing because they didn’t think it through. The answer is of course yes they did occupy the Warsaw ghetto because that was a city in Poland and all of Poland was occupied by the Nazis and the ghetto was run by Jewish leaders hand picked by the Nazis. If all of Gaza was occupied but the Israelis didn’t have troops in Gaza City and people were insisting you couldn’t classify Gaza City as “occupied” even though it was administered by puppet rulers you’d have a point, but that’s not the situation so you don’t. There are actually strong arguments to make that Gaza is occupied and I, for one think it is. I’m surprised you didn’t make any. Frankly, it looks more like you were looking for an excuse to compare the Jewish State to Nazi Germany, but hopefully That just an honest mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/110 "2014-08-02T04:45:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You seriously don’t know what the phrase “next year in Jerusalem” is in reference to, why it’s said by every Jewish person in the world once a year and why this has been going on for a couple of thousand years? > > I’m genuinely shocked. Ok, it’s the phrase used to end Passover every year and is perhaps the best example of how the Jews long, long before Herzl thought of themselves as a nation and believed there homeland to be Israel. And why the fuck does that matter? Its trivia. I have no doubt you would do well on Jewish Jeopardy but its not really relevant except tangentially. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/111 "2014-08-02T04:49:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m here. You’re not. How does that make your point of view (AKA opinion) more relevant than mine? I don’t see how relevant plays into it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/112 "2014-08-02T04:54:23Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, except that Israel isn’t occupying Gaza, and the only recently has even sent troops in there because of the whole rockets thingy. I tend to agree with you but I have read articles about the status of Gaza that make convincing arguments that Israel “occupies” Gaza despite a lack of physical presence. > [@](#): > > Well, that’s certainly one way to spin things. Personally, I think that the crappy rockets and tunnels are what’s keeping their situation so bad. It looks like the rocket attacks started in 2001. Were things pretty good in gaza before that? > [@](#): > > Some would, some wouldn’t. Don’t you think there would be some sort of value to that sort of self selection? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/113 "2014-08-02T15:01:15Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Every time I hear someone make this argument I nearly piss myself laughing because they didn’t think it through. > > The answer is of course yes they did occupy the Warsaw ghetto because that was a city in Poland and all of Poland was occupied by the Nazis and the ghetto was run by Jewish leaders hand picked by the Nazis. > > If all of Gaza was occupied but the Israelis didn’t have troops in Gaza City and people were insisting you couldn’t classify Gaza City as “occupied” even though it was administered by puppet rulers you’d have a point, but that’s not the situation so you don’t. > > There are actually strong arguments to make that Gaza is occupied and I, for one think it is. > > I’m surprised you didn’t make any. Frankly, it looks more like you were looking for an excuse to compare the Jewish State to Nazi Germany, but hopefully That just an honest mistake. OK. I retract my reference to the ghettos. What is your definition of “occupy”? ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/114 "2014-08-02T16:49:25Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I don’t know how many people in Gaza would accept the offer, but I suspect it would be a substantial number, and I think any number of countries would accept them. There’s no reason the US couldn’t take another 250,000, for example, and there are other countries that would follow our example. Especially if they showed up with cash money in their pockets. Leaving aside the problems already mentioned by others, I’m not clear why you think $50,000 per individual is enough to incentivize countries to open their immigration doors. That is not a lot of money, especially for refugees starting a new life basically from scratch. And then what happens once the money is gone? My friend works as an Iraqi refugee aid, so I know something of the process of settling people into the U.S. It takes a lot of work and resources to settle refugees into a new country. You don’t just give them cash and drop them off the sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/115 "2014-08-02T19:51:05Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > OK. I retract my reference to the ghettos. What is your definition of “occupy”? I don’t really have a strict definition of “occupy”. I think most reasonable people would conclude that Gaza was still occupied by Israel when Israel controls access in and out as well as access to services like electricity and phones(I was genuinely surprised none of the “we hate Israel” crowd picked up on that with Israel’s warning phone calls). Now, perhaps you could explain why you chose to pull a Godwin and compare the Jews of Israel to Nazis? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/116 "2014-08-02T19:54:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How does that make your point of view (AKA opinion) more relevant than mine? I don’t see how relevant plays into it. He lives in the region, knows a lot about it, has personal connections with the people involved and cares about both the Palestinians and the Israelis, and is personally affected by the debate. How much of the above would apply to you? Edit: the above isn’t meant as an insult, but I don’t know how else to give a full answer to your question. It’s also an answer that applies to most people here. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/117 "2014-08-02T19:57:12Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And why the fuck does that matter? Its trivia. I have no doubt you would do well on Jewish Jeopardy but its not really relevant except tangentially. It’s hardly “trivia”. It’s actually a fairly well-known fact and moreover it’s illustrative of the fact that contrary to your earlier assertion Jews viewed themselves as a nation long and Israel as their homeland long before “the early 20th Century” contrary to your earlier claims. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/118 "2014-08-04T02:47:49Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > He lives in the region, knows a lot about it, has personal connections with the people involved and cares about both the Palestinians and the Israelis, and is personally affected by the debate. > > How much of the above would apply to you? > > Edit: the above isn’t meant as an insult, but I don’t know how else to give a full answer to your question. It’s also an answer that applies to most people here. OK, so his opinion is more relevant because he has more a of a personal stake in how things shake out? OK. Maybe that makes his opinion more relevant. Probably makes it less objective as well. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/119 "2014-08-04T02:57:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > It’s hardly “trivia”. It’s actually a fairly well-known fact and moreover it’s illustrative of the fact that contrary to your earlier assertion Jews viewed themselves as a nation long and Israel as their homeland long before “the early 20th Century” contrary to your earlier claims. Its relevance has nothing to do with how well known a fact is. The Zionist movement has not been around for 2000 years, has it? Or are you saying that the Jewish desire for a homeland in Palestine was part of the Zionist movement? Because then we are using two very different definitions and the definition I am using is the one consistent with wikipedia and the dictionary. > **[Zionism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism)** > > Zionism\[a\] is an ethnocultural nationalist\[b\] movement that emerged in Europe in the late 19th century and aimed for the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people through the colonization of Palestine, an area roughly corresponding to the Land of Israel in Judaism, and of central importance in Jewish history. Zionists wanted to create a Jewish state in Palestine with as much land, as many Jews, and as few Palestinian Arabs as possible. > Zionism initially emerged in Central and Ea... > **[zionism definition - Bing](https://www.bing.com/search?q=zionism%2Bdefinition&go=Submit&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=zionism%2Bdefinition&sc=4-18&sp=-1&sk=&ghc=1&cvid=9969f884030f4880a9d93d024825fd14)** > > Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you. > **[Google](https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=zionism+definition)** > > Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778/120 "2014-08-04T03:07:38Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK, so his opinion is more relevant because he has more a of a personal stake in how things shake out? OK. Maybe that makes his opinion more relevant. Probably makes it less objective as well. No serious person would classify your opinion as “objective”. His opinion is also vastly more informed than your’s, which is the major point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economic-solution-to-the-gaza-conflict/693778.md?page=7)