# Economics of electric vehicles **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 16, 2024, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908 "2024-03-16T12:34:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/141 "2024-07-12T16:00:43Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/EP8NIENL2xI/maxresdefault.jpg "The Sound of the šŸŒž SUN. Cadillac Lyriq") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP8NIENL2xI) ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/142 "2024-07-12T16:03:11Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ofJs3TmBlig/maxresdefault.jpg "2024 Cadillac Lyriq Luxury 450E Artifical Low-Speed Sound (AVAS Pedestrian Warning) #cadillac #lyriq") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofJs3TmBlig) ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/143 "2024-07-12T16:03:51Z")
Thatā€™s VERY up close. Itā€™s significantly less obtrusive a few feet away. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/144 "2024-07-12T16:27:57Z")
Hehehe, I find it actually quite pleasant, kind of like an ambient synth piece. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/145 "2024-07-12T16:30:50Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > kind of like an ambient synth piece Haā€¦thatā€™s what I thought too. I can ā€œomā€ out to that. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/146 "2024-07-12T16:50:08Z")
crunching some numbers on my 2014 LEAF: getting average of 7km/kWh Tier 1 electricity pricing 0.12 CAD/kWh (not counting the 0.22/day basic cost) 100 km = 14.3 kWh Gas price = $1.70 CAD/litre Works out to equivalent 235 MPG (US gallons) ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/147 "2024-07-12T16:53:34Z")
Thatā€™s VERY efficient! Is it mostly around town driving? Our Lyriq is about 3 mpkw but itā€™s mostly highway. Much bigger car, or course. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/148 "2024-07-12T17:09:59Z")
We are at 5600 miles in our Tesla and it works out to 3.1 miles per KWh. Weā€™ve spent $272 to charge (that includes a few trips with Tesla Superchargers). On our Subaru, with current gas prices that would be about $800 in fuel. And yes, the Leaf is efficient. Thatā€™s about 4.4 miles per KWh. Of course, I do drive with a heavy foot (pulled over once for speeding already)ā€¦Iā€™m sure I could do a lot better if I wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/149 "2024-07-12T17:36:28Z")
Yes, mostly around town, not much highway driving, and thatā€™s usually only at 80 km/h ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/150 "2024-09-03T22:05:18Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Itā€™s just that the Lyriq is a different sound that any other EV that Iā€™ve heard; not sure if itā€™s volume, pitch, or just a different sound, & _extremely_ annoying sound, I was in my house, with the windows closed, & was able to hear it go by. I donā€™t know if itā€™s the model or this particular unit but thatā€™s too loud ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/151 "2024-09-03T22:06:55Z")
The RAV4s are also fairly loud going forward. I can tell when our friend is pulling up to our house. And, she often takes our dog and our dog goes a running to the door because he knows. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/152 "2024-09-03T22:18:51Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Hehehe, I find it actually quite pleasant, kind of like an ambient synth piece. The ice cream truck that patrols our neighborhood plays a never-ending loop of ā€œTurkey in the Straw.ā€ Maybe auto manufacturers need to think outside of the box like that. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/153 "2024-09-03T22:21:28Z")
Then youā€™ll have children running into the streets looking for ice cream. Safety would most likely decrease. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/154 "2024-09-03T22:26:36Z")
Saw a test of the F150 Vs the new Ram 1500 towing 6800# up to the Eisenhower tunnel and back in CO. They averaged _4.7_ MPG. Now I know charging times and fillup times are drastically different, but my 32 gallon tank would be $100+. A Chevy Silverado EV (that could go further) would be $30 in MT. Might be worth getting a burger. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/155 "2024-12-03T02:37:54Z")
News report; owner of a new Cybertruck in Alberta got two hours usage of it before it bricked, possibly because of the cold. [Tesla Cybertruck Immediately Dies in Canadian Winter ā€“ Owner Bricks the Truck Trying to Use the Defroster, Says ā€œIn Love to Heartbroken on the Same Dayā€ | Torque News](https://www.torquenews.com/11826/tesla-cybertruck-immediately-dies-canadian-winter-owner-bricks-truck-trying-use-defroster/amp) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/156 "2024-12-03T04:59:45Z")
From the article: > Tesla employs a heat pump on the Cybertruck to increase the heating and cooling efficiency. This is good for preserving battery power and range, but there are questions about how effective this system is in harsh environments. I have been advised by my home heating guy that a heat pump is not an option for my house, because they just donā€™t work well in our winters. Dunno how that translates to a heat pump in a vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/157 "2024-12-03T20:04:20Z")
The Model Y and several other vehicles have been using heat pumps for years now with no problem. There were some initial teething pains they had to get through, though. And this is a different architecture due to the 48 volts and other things. You do need a source of resistive backup heat. Some vehicles put in a separate heating unit. The Model Y at least runs the motor windings in a deliberately inefficient way to generate more heat when needed. Saves a part and simplifies the overall architecture, but it is probably harder to get right initially. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/158 "2024-12-03T23:00:43Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Dunno how that translates to a heat pump in a vehicle. In a car there are things which are too hot, and things which are too cold. The Tesla heat pump works with the cooling system to move heat from the too hot things to the too cold things. It is not completely dependent on outside air. For example, in the summer the AC (aka heat pump) moves heat from inside the cabin, and perhaps puts it in the battery to warm it up in advance of supercharging. In the winter, waste heat from the motors and electronics can be put in the cabin. Obviously if there is not enough or too much heat the outside air can be used as a source of heat or a place to dump excess heat. Even -40 air still contains heat, it is just hard to get. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/159 "2024-12-05T02:20:57Z")
Mach E is getting a heat pump in MY2025. Iā€™m a little dubious, because my 2021 and my 2024 have been perfectly serviceable without a heat pump, and this is reportedly going to take away from my frunk space (I have a 2025 on order ā€“ hey, I _love_ this carline). In cold weather the heat pump is going to extend the range slightly, but in warmer weather, itā€™s just added, unnecessary weight. Itā€™s also an additional potential point of failure. I really hope that Ford did proper due engineering diligence on this decision rather than having Marketing simply listening to all of the dumb Reddit subs that say that ā€œa heat pump is necessary.ā€ Iā€™m not anti-heat pump. I installed a pricey ground-source heat pump (ā€œgeothermalā€) in my previous house. Its ROI was six years. I was awesome. I wish I had the space to install one on my current property ā€“ vertical has no ROI for me. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908/160 "2024-12-05T02:35:50Z")
A heat pump shouldnā€™t require significantly more mass/volume. Itā€™s just air conditioning in reverse, after all, so the normal AC compressor gets replaced with a dual-purpose one. The valving gets more complicated but Tesla at least has shown how to simplify that with their octovalve. And of course you lose the big resistive heater and all the stuff related to that. Seems like about a wash overall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economics-of-electric-vehicles/998908.md?page=9)