# economy class seating my ass... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 20, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542 "2003-10-20T16:48:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542/121 "2003-10-29T18:24:15Z")
OK, let’s summarize, folks. Are we clear that in a mass market, personal preferences only count to the extent that _enough_ people share them with _enough_ intensity to create a difference? With AA’s retreat on space, it’s pretty clear that not _enough_ people care _enough_ about extra room to create a viable market for that particular service. It’s no different from the fact (highly annoying to me), that not _enough_ people want to go from New York to Austin often _enough_ to create a market for cheap nonstop flights on that route. Or that not _enough_ people like grapefruit juice _enough_ that the cabin crew will have it in the trolley. Mass markets exist to fulfil _mass_ preferences - not _your_ preferences. Oh, and **sailor**? Just remember, **A** lways **L** ate **I** n **T** akeoff, **A** lways **L** ate **I** n **A** rrival. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542/122 "2003-10-29T18:34:37Z")
I flew Alitalia yesterday. It was on time. However, my outward journey was delayed by an hour due to missing paperwork, and the food was amongst the worst I’ve ever had on a plane. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542/123 "2003-10-29T21:32:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > **Una, as long as we agree that the airlines are free to set their own policies and set their marketing strategies, then, of course, we are entitled to opine what would be the best for the airline and the passenger. No doubt every corporation makes mistakes but outsiders should not be entitled to force their views on a corporation. I think you will agree with me.** I do agree. I’m only commenting on it because it seems to me, in my judgement, that they are missing on a great “feel good” opportunity here that could really make some good business sense. If they don’t want to they don’t want to, I can’t change that. I’m going to carefully avoid arguing with you over free drinks and luggage, since I feel I would have a diametrically opposing view. And really, I only posted to comment regarding the seating issue. > [@](#): > > **If airlines upgraded people to first class as you say they might cause more problems. They might alienate some first class passengers who paid big bucks to be in first class. They might alienate some economy passengers who felt they had more right to be upgraded. They might lose revenue from people who might hope to be upgraded. I don’t know all this but there are many variables. In any case, if you think it is a good idea, the thing to do is write the airline and let them know.** Those are good points. I still think my idea has more merits to it. I used to write the airlines, until I became convinced that they didn’t give a shit whether I lived or died. That was one reason I switched to Delta as my primary airline - for several years, they treated me like I was someone special. Since 9/11, however, their level of customer service and perks has declined abominably, and I was even subject to a “profiling” incident at an airport. You know, where an airline desk clerk told me that I didn’t belong in the Medallion line because I “didn’t look like (I) belonged there”. :mad: > [@](#): > > **I travel mostly in economy but I have flown in first class a few times, either because it was a business expense or because I was upgraded by the airline. Of course it is _much_ better than travelling in the economy section but I would still rather travel cheaply and use my (limited) money for something else.** I’ve never paid for First or Business except on trans-oceanic trips, and that’s paid by my company. In the 48 States, Delta has given me so many damn 500-mile First Class segment upgrades I don’t even know what to do with them. I said I had 67 of them, that was not an exaggeration - I actually just got 4 more yesterday, so I’m up to 71. It’s a shame I can’t transfer them, otherwise I’d give them away to friends. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542/124 "2003-10-29T22:14:29Z")
But remember, each Alitalia is personally blessed by the Pope! ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542/125 "2003-10-29T23:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Una Persson \* > \*\* Base it on FF status, base it on random selection, base it on removing a few people from the center seat…_\* I think your idea is swell in theory, but there is NO way I would want to be on a flight where someone from coach was chosen (randomly or not) to go to first. Can you imagine the bitchfest? No thanks! I saw a documentary once about Sky chef. They talked about how they made sure that each meal was identical… down to the number of carrot pieces in the salad. Why? because people will bitch, bitch, bitch otherwise. “Excuse me, but why does _his_salad have more carrots than mine?” ---
**Author:** ![Obsidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@Obsidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obsidian)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542/126 "2003-10-30T08:13:05Z")
What I think a lot of people are forgetting is that business travelers used to basically subsidize coach. My dad flew for business when I was growing up, and he always went first class, it didn’t matter if he was only flying from NY to Florida. Companies just paid, it was just expected. Then one day, they figured out you could get a cross country flight in coach for $200 on orbitz, and save a buttload (at the expense of their employees). Once airlines were forced to actually make their profit on coach, they began jamming people in like cattle. I’d imagine most first class passengers are on upgrades at this point. That said, what I think is really highway robbery is the vast varriance in prices for the same seats. For example: booked one of my bosses on an AA flight from SF to NY for $350. Two days later, a second boss decided he was going to that meeting. The SAME flight (they literally sat next to each other) cost $630. I book travel for my bosses, one of whom is 6’5" and built like a linebacker. Often I book him a second seat, which is still vastly cheaper than first class. Once or twice, he’s had his spare seat ‘bumped’, when the flight was overbooked or for standby passengers. (As in, they put a passenger in HIS extra seat, a seat we PAID for, because he doesn’t fit in a coach seat without vastly invading the neighboring seat) Now that’s just plain fucked up. Now when I call to book flights I have to badger the agent to make sure they note in his file that this passenger doesn’t fit in a single seat, must be left open, blah blah. What do you say-- is he or is he not entitled to the extra comfort that he expressly paid double for? ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542/127 "2003-10-30T14:57:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Obsidian \* > \*\*What do you say-- is he or is he not entitled to the extra comfort that he expressly paid double for? > \*\* Of course! And I never said that the major airlines weren’t ill-managed disasters (in fact, in a pit thread of my own I invoked a bankruptcy pox on all their house). It’s just that the fact that seats are small isn’t itself a reason to get upset - it’s par for the territory and something passengers should expect. And you’re dead to rights on the cross-subsidy thing. I’ll never forget the fare my law firm paid for me back in '99 or ‘00, when I had to make a cross country trip on 12 hours’ notice. $2,100 for a coach seat on Continental from Newark to Orange County, California. Once the dot-com boom was over, not many businesses were willing to shell out those kinds of dollars anymore, and the whole edifice crumbled. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542/128 "2003-10-30T15:24:58Z")
Interesting about Delta’s customer service – a few months ago I wrote them about how well they handled what was a perfectly hideous situation and got $100 in vouchers. I’d call that pretty good customer service. The short version is that there was a dent in one of the doors that was near the bottom. It took them about an hour to figure out that it couldn’t be fixed on the spot, but the captain kept us aware of exactly what was going on (no “we have a mechanical problem that will delay us” shit like I’ve always heard before) and how long it would take, and what would happen if they couldn’t fix it on the spot. Rebooking an entire plane must be a nightmare for airline personnel, but they handled it beautifully. They even managed to get my checked bag over to American successfully, which was a minor miracle. I hate hate hate hate flying but in this situation they did real good, and I thought I ought to tell them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/economy-class-seating-my-ass/208542.md?page=6)