# Ed Brown Raid - Tax Evasion
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 12, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766 "2007-06-12T20:58:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/141 "2007-06-19T18:12:13Z")
An earlier thread that may be of interest: [Refute this endearingly loopy (Canadian) anti-tax argument - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357200)
And a quotation that I find very useful when dealing with tax-protest cases: “Some people believe with great fervor preposterous things that just happen to coincide with their self-interest.” _Coleman v. CIR_ (7th Cir. 1986), 791 F.2d 68, 69.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/142 "2007-06-19T18:30:51Z")
> [@bobsled](#):
>
> Because the income tax is a direct tax on labor
This is so obviously false that I had to drag it in here from all the way back on page 2.
The income tax is clearly not a “direct tax on labor”, as shown by the fact that you can labor your ass off 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year at volunteer or subminimum-wage jobs and, as long as your income remains below the tax threshold, pay no income tax whatsoever.
On the other hand, if you have taxable income from some source that requires no labor on your part at all, you still have to pay income tax on it.
The income tax is a tax on getting money, not a tax on doing work. Yes, for most of us getting money happens to be directly connected to doing work, but the income tax doesn’t strictly require that connection.
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/143 "2007-06-19T22:06:30Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
:dubious: You wouldn’t be channeling [Heinlein,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=397032) would you?
[/QUOTE]
Don’t insult R.A.H., **Brainglutten** , or i will put the Skull Eye Hex onna youse. 😉😃😛
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/144 "2007-06-20T20:27:45Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
Don’t insult R.A.H., **Brainglutten** , or i will put the Skull Eye Hex onna youse. 😉😃😛
[/QUOTE]
What, no flying winged howler monkeys?!
I feel slighted. ☹
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/145 "2007-06-21T14:18:33Z")
[CNN.com](http://CNN.com)’s story on the situation: [http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/21/tax.evaders.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/21/tax.evaders.ap/index.html)
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/146 "2007-06-21T14:41:54Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
[CNN.com](http://CNN.com)’s story on the situation: [http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/21/tax.evaders.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/21/tax.evaders.ap/index.html)
[/QUOTE]
> [@](#):
>
> Sitting in lawn chairs around the Browns’ long gravel driveway, the couple’s supporters rail against Freemasons, the Illuminati, the Federal Reserve, the Vatican and the mainstream media.
I bet the government is trying to put fluoride in the Browns’ well, too.
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/147 "2007-06-21T14:45:51Z")
> [@From linked CNN story](#):
>
> Sitting in lawn chairs around the Browns’ long gravel driveway, the couple’s supporters rail against Freemasons, the Illuminati, the Federal Reserve, the Vatican and the mainstream media.
Ugh. I had not considered this. I felt that if the Feds kept the couple penned up on the compound for five years, then that could be considered “sentence served”.
But with the Kook Brigade coming out, someone might start a scuffle with Da Man just to get their mug on the news…
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/148 "2007-06-21T14:47:22Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
[CNN.com](http://CNN.com)’s story on the situation: [http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/21/tax.evaders.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/21/tax.evaders.ap/index.html)
[/QUOTE]
The authorities really do need to cut off access to the compound. The Browns claim to be self-sufficient; let them prove it. I agree that having all those wingnuts hanging around the area is just trouble waiting to happen.
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### Author:  [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/149 "2007-06-21T20:09:24Z")
[QUOTE=Frank]
The authorities really do need to cut off access to the compound. The Browns claim to be self-sufficient; let them prove it. I agree that having all those wingnuts hanging around the area is just trouble waiting to happen.
[/QUOTE]
I think it’s good that we’ll get an idea of just how many militia are hanging around these parts. I do miss reading his sign near his wife’s dental office. I learned a lot about Zionists and us papists.
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### Author:  [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/150 "2007-06-22T13:57:33Z")
[QUOTE=bobsled]
I don’t have to defend my idea anymore than to say that’s how I interpret the Constitution, and that I’m following a historical tradition of this interpretation. I’m a Jeffersonian strict constructionist, not a federalist Hamilitonian. This was an debate even in the earliest days of the Republic. From the Wikipedia article on Necessary-and-proper clause:
[/QUOTE]
Just for the record: Mr. Jefferson was not a delegate to the Constitutional Convention. Thus, we is not a party to which one can appeal to determine the original intent of the drafters of the Constitution.
Sua
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/151 "2007-06-22T19:55:39Z")
[QUOTE=bobsled]
I’m a Jeffersonian strict constructionist, not a federalist Hamilitonian.
[/QUOTE]
You’re Jeffersonian strict constructionist? Then I’m sure you can answer a question that occasionally arises: please point out the clause in the U.S. Constitution which authorised President Jefferson to make the Louisiana Purchase.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/152 "2007-06-22T20:39:16Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper]
You’re Jeffersonian strict constructionist? Then I’m sure you can answer a question that occasionally arises: please point out the clause in the U.S. Constitution which authorised President Jefferson to make the Louisiana Purchase.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I’ve always wondered about that, too. 😃 Not that I’m _complaining_, mind you…
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2007, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/153 "2007-06-23T04:38:29Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper]
You’re Jeffersonian strict constructionist? Then I’m sure you can answer a question that occasionally arises: please point out the clause in the U.S. Constitution which authorised President Jefferson to make the Louisiana Purchase.
[/QUOTE]
Jefferson himself was uncomfortable with this, writing later that he had “stretched the Constitution until it cracked.”
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2007, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/154 "2007-06-23T05:25:32Z")
Well, as long as he felt \*conflicted \* about it afterward…
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2007, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/155 "2007-06-23T05:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper]
You’re Jeffersonian strict constructionist? Then I’m sure you can answer a question that occasionally arises: please point out the clause in the U.S. Constitution which authorised President Jefferson to make the Louisiana Purchase.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, now you’re just being mean. 😃 😃
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/156 "2007-06-23T16:26:08Z")
[QUOTE=SuaSponte]
Just for the record: Mr. Jefferson was not a delegate to the Constitutional Convention. Thus, we is not a party to which one can appeal to determine the original intent of the drafters of the Constitution.
Sua
[/QUOTE]
Come to think of it, Hamilton didn’t have much to do with the Constitution either. He was at the Convention, but left when his [plan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Convention#Hamilton.27s_plan) was rejected.
But both Jefferson and Hamilton were contemporary statesmen who commented on the Constitution. To call oneself a “Jeffersonian strict constructionist” is not _ipso facto_ nonsensical.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/157 "2007-06-24T22:47:06Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Come to think of it, Hamilton didn’t have much to do with the Constitution either. He was at the Convention, but left when his [plan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Convention#Hamilton.27s_plan) was rejected.
[/quote]
I don’t think he left because his plan was rejected, but because his two co-delegates from New York left, depriving him of any vote (delegates voted as states, not as individuals). But he came back, and participated in further work on the draft, as [the Wiki article mentions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Convention#Drafting_and_signing). He did sign the final draft, even though he could not vote for the final draft.
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> But both Jefferson and Hamilton were contemporary statesmen who commented on the Constitution. To call oneself a “Jeffersonian strict constructionist” is not _ipso facto_ nonsensical.
Isn’t it? When Mr. Jefferson is noted for one of the earliest, most significant expansions of the Constitution, can he really lay claim to being a strict constructionist?
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/158 "2007-06-24T22:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise]
Oh, now you’re just being mean. 😃 😃
[/QUOTE]
Merely probing the underpinnings of the argument. 😛
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/159 "2007-06-24T23:17:24Z")
Scaring the OPer away, more like. (Where’d he go?)
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-brown-raid-tax-evasion/407766/160 "2007-06-24T23:39:45Z")
I also believe Jefferson recommended the Constitution should be discarded, and a new one written from scratch, every 20 years or so, on the grounds that you cannot expect a man to wear a boy’s jacket.
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