# Ed, I think your efforts to improve the Dope have been a failure so far. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [March 3, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210 "2009-03-03T23:43:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/41 "2009-03-04T17:18:23Z")
> [@wring](#): > > Spam here, to me, was generally of the: New poster, simply posting "hey, check out this grovey new place"which I happen to have a personal interest in > > Some times a poster would link to stuff they personally found interesting, funny, exciting etc. and it wasn’t a problem. > > For example - how did ya’ll treat **Opal** linking to her mention on some artist web site? [hmm doesn’t seem to have been any moderation at all, even though she mentions that she was hoping folks would buy prints because of that site](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=504717) > > Could you please, then explain what the difference is? I **know** you don’t moderate every single mention folks make of other sites they find interesting. Why now, why this one? and, more importantly, how was anyone supposed to know that it’d be found objectionable? And so the hijack begins… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/42 "2009-03-04T17:21:23Z")
> [@wring](#): > > Could you please, then explain what the difference is? I **know** you don’t moderate every single mention folks make of other sites they find interesting. Why now, why this one? and, more importantly, how was anyone supposed to know that it’d be found objectionable? I can’t say this without running afoul of the junior modding rules, but as per my Op, I think this detailed level is off-topic and there is a thread about [Baldwin’s suspension already](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508953). I am sorry and I hope you understand why I am asking. I know I nudged it off course a bit first. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/43 "2009-03-04T17:22:39Z")
I don’t think the heart of the _Straight_ Dope can be here when there is no place to be completely, sometimes brutally, honest. We are the adults – sometimes even seniors, who are told that words are dirty when they are sexual. And even when the sexual word is not used sexually, we must avoid it. Some of us find that not just wrong, but _creepy_. Healthy sex education begins with teaching a child not to be ashamed of her or his body parts. They are not “dirty.” Sex is not “dirty.” It is beautiful and fun and about as civilized as civilization can get. Selfishness is more uncivil than any words. Don’t become [“Ozymandias.”](http://www.online-literature.com/shelley_percy/672) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/44 "2009-03-04T17:23:29Z")
> [@wring](#): > > Spam here, to me, was generally of the: New poster, simply posting "hey, check out this grovey new place"which I happen to have a personal interest in This issue has been covered elsewhere, such as [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508953) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10900446&post10900446). I think the whole topic’s been covered already, but if you have questions I’m happy to take them- either way, let’s not hijack this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/45 "2009-03-04T17:25:55Z")
**Marley** , did you have a lot of regular posters in the Pit with varying ideas on how the Pit should be used before the last month or so? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/46 "2009-03-04T17:26:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This issue has been covered elsewhere, such as [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508953) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10900446&post10900446). I think the whole topic’s been covered already, but if you have questions I’m happy to take them- either way, let’s not hijack this thread. Thank you, my respect for you has been rewarded. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/47 "2009-03-04T17:29:31Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > What’s interesting is that the tone of this thread is different to what I think it would have been a week ago. A lot of the anger has gone; it’s been replaced with resignation and disappointment about something that is being viewed in the past tense. It’s as if people have - or are prepared to - accept that the Dope is no more. I recognize this feeling. I’ve been divorced twice. Yeah. It bites. But one day you wake up and realize that what you’re getting out of a relationship does not equal the investment you’re putting in to it. One can only continue that for so long. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/48 "2009-03-04T17:34:12Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Marley** , did you have a lot of regular posters in the Pit with varying ideas on how the Pit should be used before the last month or so? I’d say there are, and always have been, varying ideas about how everything here should be done. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/49 "2009-03-04T17:34:52Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I think communication is the key to this and that means a change in management style to communicating before changes are made and maybe even trying to get a feel for what would work best in the community. This is the bit that I don’t understand. It was announced that there would be changes but that input from the community wouldn’t be necessary/welcome/needed. Despite that, many Dopers did offer constructive suggestions. It became clear that Ed - for reasons that he hasn’t made suffiently clear - is hell bent on carrying out these changes, and that he either doesn’t care or isn’t interested about the general unhappiness that has ensued. Funnily enough, quite a while back, I started a thread asking Ed what his ‘vision’ or gameplan is for the Dope - what sort of board he wants, but he declined to answer. I’ve never understood why he was so adamant in his refusal to share his thoughts and opinions with us. He seems to be displaying the same sort of attitude now. As has been said many times, this is his playground: he can do what he wants. But I don’t understand why he seems so keen to engender ill will, when it would seem so easy to keep the troops on-side. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/50 "2009-03-04T17:57:31Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > This is the bit that I don’t understand. It was announced that there would be changes but that input from the community wouldn’t be necessary/welcome/needed. Despite that, many Dopers did offer constructive suggestions. It became clear that Ed - for reasons that he hasn’t made suffiently clear - is hell bent on carrying out these changes, and that he either doesn’t care or isn’t interested about the general unhappiness that has ensued. It has _always_ been thus. Back before the boards went P2P, we offered up suggestions on how they could make money from the Dope _without_ going P2P. These were rejected _without_ serious consideration. When that didn’t work, other things were tried, all of them implemented in the same ham fisted manner as P2P. Some of them were only repealed _after_ we ground the entire board to a halt and spent our time bitching in a Pit thread and filling the inboxes of various management types with complaint letters. Now, however, it seems that the camel’s got a cracked vertebrae, if not a broken back, because prior to this, **no one** had set up another board(s) in which folks departed to en masse. Some people left, its true, but not in the numbers which they seem to be doing now. TPTB seem to have adopted the cellphone company model of customer service, namely “We’re not happy, till _you’re_ **not** happy.” That “works” so long as your options are limited. In the case of message boards, however, its **not** a wise business move by any means. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/51 "2009-03-04T18:05:02Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > If **Ed** had given us a rationale for these changes - “Look guys, I know this place has been pretty rambunctious in the past and I don’t want to cut into that too much, but I’m getting leant on a bit from upstairs - do you think you could see your way clear to toning some of the language down a bit, and lay off the cussing out of staff? I really hate to spoil your fun, but this is the way the wind is blowing from above and I really don’t want to have to start implementing rules like we’re all back in school.” C’mon, most people here would have been completely on board with that. > > But telling us out of the blue that the tone of the place is now too filthy for his liking, there are suddenly dirty words that we are Not To Use, that here is a list of them and we are to comply Or Else: well, as customer service goes it leaves no fist unhammed and no finger unbuttered. Or is that no ham unfisted and no butter unfingered? It’s bloody clumsy {and yes, it did flicker across my mind “is it OK to say bloody?”; that’s the atmosphere that’s being engendered in here at present}, in any event, and it is no way to treat the people who have typed their fingers to the bone over the last ten years to keep this place going. I was going to say pretty much the same thing. It’s not as much the new rules but how they were implemented. We were treated like five year olds and, unsurprisingly, that’s how many of us acted. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/52 "2009-03-04T18:16:04Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I was going to say pretty much the same thing. It’s not as much the new rules but how they were implemented. We were treated like five year olds and, unsurprisingly, that’s how many of us acted. Interesting comment. Are you saying you were treated like 5 year olds _before_ the rules were implemented, or _after_? Along those lines, did you act like 5 year olds _before_ the rules were implemented, or _after_, or _both_? Cuz I might be seeing some cause and effect here… ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/53 "2009-03-04T18:24:34Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > …But Robby will have to clarify the banned part. The source of my comment was just an observation from the front page of ATMB: [Can someone explain the Banning process?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508260) [Baldwin suspended for one month](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508932) [What happened to don’t fight the hypothetical?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508964) [About Sapo’s suspension.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508971) [Absolute stupidity [about Baldwin’s suspension]](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508953) [Ed, just ban the whole lot.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508974) Sure is a lot of talk about banning and suspensions. Maybe none of these bannings and suspensions have anything to do with the recent changes. Maybe they all do. I haven’t read all the linked threads, nor am I up on all of the associated events that may have led to resultant suspensions/bannings. In any event, that was just the “or” part of a phrase that also referred to posters leaving voluntarily. To this I could also refer to the recent number of mods stepping down, and the upsurge of various splinter boards. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/54 "2009-03-04T18:26:39Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > Funnily enough, quite a while back, I started a thread asking Ed what his ‘vision’ or gameplan is for the Dope - what sort of board he wants, but he declined to answer. I forgot to add what my post was leading up to. :smack: Which is: I think it is now even more necessary and relevant for Ed to answer my question. As you (Ed) obviously don’t want the Dope to be what it was, what do you want it to be? I think a clear answer would help everyone. They may not agree with the proposed direction, but at least everyone would know where we’re going. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/55 "2009-03-04T18:31:20Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Sure is a lot of talk about banning and suspensions. > > Maybe none of these bannings and suspensions have anything to do with the recent changes. Maybe they all do. I haven’t read all the linked threads, nor am I up on all of the associated events that may have led to resultant suspensions/bannings. If you’re not going to read them, it would be helpful and better-informed if you didn’t jump to conclusions based on the titles. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/56 "2009-03-04T18:36:01Z")
Yes, let’s please continue with the nitpicking of one offhand comment and ignore the OP. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/57 "2009-03-04T18:43:01Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Interesting comment. > > Are you saying you were treated like 5 year olds _before_ the rules were implemented, or _after_? > > Along those lines, did you act like 5 year olds _before_ the rules were implemented, or _after_, or _both_? > > Cuz I might be seeing some cause and effect here… To be frank, actually we were treated like it is a privilege to post at Ed’s Board. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/58 "2009-03-04T19:11:00Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > To be frank, actually we were treated like it is a privilege to post at Ed’s Board. Please understand that I am _not_ trying to be snarky, but if the practical opposite of “privilege” is “right” isn’t it true that our posting privileges are just that: _privileges?_ I know it is common (and I’m no different) to feel a sense of _ownership_ with a place you’ve invested some of your self in, but that feeling alone doesn’t confer “rights” does it? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/59 "2009-03-04T19:15:04Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Please understand that I am _not_ trying to be snarky, but if the practical opposite of “privilege” is “right” isn’t it true that our posting privileges are just that: _privileges?_ > > I know it is common (and I’m no different) to feel a sense of _ownership_ with a place you’ve invested some of your self in, but that feeling alone doesn’t confer “rights” does it? The roll-eyes smiley just doesn’t cut it. We are customers. Businesses shouldn’t make their customers feel like they are lucky to be allowed in the door. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210/60 "2009-03-04T19:25:54Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Please understand that I am _not_ trying to be snarky, but if the practical opposite of “privilege” is “right” isn’t it true that our posting privileges are just that: _privileges?_ > > I know it is common (and I’m no different) to feel a sense of _ownership_ with a place you’ve invested some of your self in, but that feeling alone doesn’t confer “rights” does it? It does not confer rights, but this is not about rights. This is about Ed losing potentially and theoretically valuable members of the board due to heavy handed administration and not treating the community with much respect. It is his board. He can do what he wants but he risks alienating the community and losing part of it and I think this time he had done so as a culmination of many poor decisions, poor planning and lack of communications. He began an upgrade process without sufficient resources. He does appear to understand the Dope has grown beyond the Cecil fan board. He is making a list of banned words but only banned against users, not banned in general. This does not appear very rational. Inconsistent censorship is worse than pure censorship. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-i-think-your-efforts-to-improve-the-dope-have-been-a-failure-so-far/488210.md?page=4)