# Ed, one simple question about the new Pit Rules **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 28, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739 "2009-02-28T01:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/21 "2009-02-28T16:40:31Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > Let me start by saying this is not an advertising-driven thing. I’ve been getting some flak this week from the ad sales guys, but it’s mostly because we had a whole collection of sex columns on the home page, since we’re running TSD classics out of the sex chapter of book 1. Be that as it may, a very big deal to advertisers is the editorial environment, never mind the page views. One of the selling points of Maxim, believe it or not, was that they could tell advertisers: we’re not like Playboy, we don’t have totally naked ladies. In the alternative newspaper biz, taking “adult” advertising is a dicey proposition - there’s money in it, but it chases other advertisers away. Other than getting razzed about the sex columns (and razzing is all it was - nobody said I couldn’t run sex columns), I’ve heard zero from the CL honchos about cleaning up the site. But over the years I’ve had lot of people tell me: you could get wider column distribution/sell more books/get more mainstream acceptance if Cecil wouldn’t run questions like (for example) why is shit brown. My attitude has always been: Listen, our mission is to tell people the facts, even if they’re a little icky. But my other thought has been: if we’re going to get hammered for being too out there, it’s going to be because of stuff Cecil decided he wanted to tackle, not because some potty mouth in the Pit decided he wanted to say “cunt” whenever he felt like it. You see what I’m saying? We’re putting up all the damn money; it’s our butts that are on the line. We don’t need freelancers screwing up the act. I’m sorry if I come across like a crazyass tyrant at times, but I gotta keep this thing focused. Anybody in my shoes would do the same. See, Ed, this is a perfect example of why you still don’t get it. You continue to think of these boards as an extension of your paper, and treat it with an editor’s eye. The boards are not and never will be even close to the same environment. You can’t edit the content here. You can’t edit people’s interaction with other people. You can set up some rules, but they had damned well better be clear and obvious to the people who have to follow them, and they had damned well better be consistently enforced. Edited to add: I’m sure you’re a fantastic editor. I just don’t think that the skills required to be a good admin for a message board are the same. What makes you a great editor will also make you a shitty admin. I think you need to either re-think your approach to adminning the boards or leave it to those who have the skills. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/22 "2009-02-28T22:34:38Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Why did you feel the need to redefine the rules in order to stamp out the types of posts that you disapprove of? Why not simply enforce the “don’t be a jerk” rule more rigorously? Isn’t it obvious? Lynne got told to fuck off. Problem was, she was posting as a poster, not a mod. In the pit. That’s perfectly within the rules. Ergo, rules must change. Of course we can’t have Lynne the poster put in her place. Mods must be protected at all times, don’tcha know. These new rules are the lengths they’ll go to demand respect. God forbid they try to _earn_ it, like everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/23 "2009-03-01T01:05:59Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Mods must be protected at all times, don’tcha know. You’re obviously new here. If you’d been around for a while, you’d understand that mods have had to put up with WAY more abuse than other posters, and mods are generally not allowed to punch back (as one quick f’rinstance, mods are not supposed to start Pit threads about other posters.) ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/24 "2009-03-01T02:07:47Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > You’re obviously new here. If you’d been around for a while, you’d understand that mods have had to put up with WAY more abuse than other posters, and mods are generally not allowed to punch back (as one quick f’rinstance, mods are not supposed to start Pit threads about other posters.) Since when can’t a mod pit another poster as a poster? I can’t think of an example but I seem to recall having seen it in the past. And if they can’t handle the abuse, maybe they shouldn’t be a mod? I mean, really, the worse abuse here doesn’t amount to more than words on a screen. Back when I used to run a retail store my staff and I had to deal with customers throwing things at us, threatening to kill/sue/hurt us either in person or on the phone, getting robbed, or (actually happened) having someone demolish half my store by driving their car through it. All that and all my staff still managed to get high marks for customer service on my mystery shops. At least you guys can just step away from the computer if things get crazy. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/25 "2009-03-01T02:13:01Z")
If memory serves, it was after a rather nasty pitting by **manhatten** - but it wasn’t always true. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/26 "2009-03-01T02:50:52Z")
> [@wring](#): > > If memory serves, it was after a rather nasty pitting by **manhatten** - but it wasn’t always true. I could swear I’d seen some more recently than that. When was Frank a mod, again? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/27 "2009-03-01T04:21:28Z")
> [@XJETGIRLX](#): > > Since when can’t a mod pit another poster as a poster? I can’t think of an example but I seem to recall having seen it in the past. > > And if they can’t handle the abuse, maybe they shouldn’t be a mod? I mean, really, the worse abuse here doesn’t amount to more than words on a screen. Back when I used to run a retail store my staff and I had to deal with customers throwing things at us, threatening to kill/sue/hurt us either in person or on the phone, getting robbed, or (actually happened) having someone demolish half my store by driving their car through it. All that and all my staff still managed to get high marks for customer service on my mystery shops. > > At least you guys can just step away from the computer if things get crazy. The difference being, of course, that you and your staff were paid for that, whereas mods are simply volunteers, people like you and me, who step up to do a job that is needed without recompense. I, for one, having been involved in plenty of different volunteer activities in the past, don’t see any reason why volunteers should be treated poorly at all. On most message boards, abuse of the volunteer staff is grounds for instant suspension/banning, for that very reason. The fact that posters here are allowed to vent spleen at the volunteers is quite an unusual thing, and, in my opinion, not one of the better aspects of the board. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/28 "2009-03-01T04:25:26Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > With due respect, **Frank** , people who can’t follow rules are acting like jerks. They may not think so, they may think they’re entitled, they may have any subset of reasons that they think they’re a protected class. Sure, but this reasoning applies to almost any rules. It doesn’t automatically make those rules a good method of preventing jerkiness; not if the behavior they target is only to be considered jerky behavior on account of their violation of those very rules themselves. I could make a rule that no one could use the word “waffle” in a post, and thus screen for the kind of poster who couldn’t help but use the word “waffle” in violation of the rules. In a sense, the rule would be detecting jerks (those who couldn’t be bothered to follow the rules…). But it’d still be misguided. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/29 "2009-03-01T04:47:41Z")
Waffle, waffle, WAFFLE! What?!? You knew it was coming…might as well get it out of the way now. ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/30 "2009-03-01T05:11:11Z")
> [@XJETGIRLX](#): > > And if they can’t handle the abuse, maybe they shouldn’t be a mod? I mean, really, the worse abuse here doesn’t amount to more than words on a screen. Back when I used to run a retail store my staff and I had to deal with customers throwing things at us, threatening to kill/sue/hurt us either in person or on the phone, getting robbed, or (actually happened) having someone demolish half my store by driving their car through it. All that and all my staff still managed to get high marks for customer service on my mystery shops. I never worked in retail, but this strikes me as bad, not good. I’ve spent nearly 30 years working as a consultant in IT services and writing and selling software, both packages and custom. One thing I’ve never tolerated, and none of my bosses (when I’ve had them) have tolerated, is abuse of the staff. You can complain, that’s part of any business. But if you’re in my office, or on the phone with one of my employees, you WILL keep a civil tongue in your head or you are out, with rarely a second chance. This isn’t because I think they’re delicate flowers who can’t handle a harsh word, but because no one deserves to be abused when they are trying to do their job, and I will not put up with it. This bullshit about “the customer is always right” is just that, bullshit. I’ve told customers to get lost before, and if the circumstances warrant, I’ll do it again. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/31 "2009-03-02T00:16:48Z")
> [@RJKUgly](#): > > I never worked in retail, but this strikes me as bad, not good. > > I’ve spent nearly 30 years working as a consultant in IT services and writing and selling software, both packages and custom. One thing I’ve never tolerated, and none of my bosses (when I’ve had them) have tolerated, is abuse of the staff. You can complain, that’s part of any business. But if you’re in my office, or on the phone with one of my employees, you WILL keep a civil tongue in your head or you are out, with rarely a second chance. > > This isn’t because I think they’re delicate flowers who can’t handle a harsh word, but because no one deserves to be abused when they are trying to do their job, and I will not put up with it. > > This bullshit about “the customer is always right” is just that, bullshit. I’ve told customers to get lost before, and if the circumstances warrant, I’ll do it again. I’ve also had experience as an IT consultant. And my experience has told me that the less people pay for a service, the more apt they are to complain. The kind of abuse I mentioned is by no means rare in retail positions. I completely agree with you as far as IT clients go, but it’s a completely different world altogether. You simply cannot manage customer service the same way in both situations. The boards are, to my mind, much more analogous to the retail situation since anyone off the street can come in your store and speak their mind or purchase your product. IT consulting has a slightly higher bar to entry. The point of my post was to illustrate that what **Ed** and **CK Dex** think is ‘abuse’ is really, really, weak. They don’t know abuse like they don’t know customer service. [QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] The difference being, of course, that you and your staff were paid for that, whereas mods are simply volunteers, people like you and me, who step up to do a job that is needed without recompense. [/QUOTE] No, the difference being that we actually knew how to provide customer service to all our customers, despite REAL abuse, without completely flipping our shit, condescending to them, or making up stupid rules that made it harder for our customers to enjoy our product. In other words, we were customer service professionals instead of a bunch of clowns making shit up as they go along. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/32 "2009-03-02T00:18:54Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > With due respect, **Frank** , people who can’t follow rules are acting like jerks. Or the rules are shitty and the people are perfectly reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/33 "2009-03-02T00:45:58Z")
> [@XJETGIRLX](#): > > Since when can’t a mod pit another poster as a poster? I can’t think of an example but I seem to recall having seen it in the past. We are not, and this was made explicit when I joined up a year ago. I doubt it was new then. > [@](#): > > And if they can’t handle the abuse, maybe they shouldn’t be a mod? I’ve said before that I was never on the wrong end of anything too bad in the Pit. It’s reasonable to expect us to put up with some complaints and arguments; it does NOT follow that people should be able abuse mods and admins without limits. > [@Baldwin](#): > > I don’t buy that. Why do advertisers care, as long as they’re getting views? You don’t know (and neither do I) that they’ll pay equally for all views. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/34 "2009-03-02T01:07:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We are not, and this was made explicit when I joined up a year ago. I doubt it was new then. It wasn’t. Nor was it new when I became a mod. It stemmed from (of all people) **CKDexterHaven**. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/35 "2009-03-02T01:33:45Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It stemmed from (of all people) **CKDexterHaven**. That needs a story. Or a link. It’s not making sense without one. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/36 "2009-03-02T01:37:59Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > That needs a story. Or a link. It’s not making sense without one. Though I looked up the link to back up my memory, it probably doesn’t need to be dredged up and posted. I’ll PM it to you if you like. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739/37 "2009-03-02T01:38:16Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > That needs a story. Or a link. It’s not making sense without one. Dex pitted Persephone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ed-one-simple-question-about-the-new-pit-rules/487739.md?page=1)