# Edmund Scientific "swinging sticks" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 3, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304 "2010-11-03T05:22:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/1 "2010-11-03T05:22:00Z")
If I could set one of [these](http://s7.thisnext.com/media/largest_dimension/CC8AE352.jpg) units into motion in the vacuum of outer space would it be a case of true perpetual motion? ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/2 "2010-11-03T05:37:27Z")
Errr…what exactly are they and what do they do? The criterion for a perpetual motion machine is that it is capable of doing work. Simply moving forever is not impossible, and in and of itself does not qualify as perpetual motion. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/3 "2010-11-03T05:51:59Z")
No, it would not be a perpetual motion machine. There can be no perpetual motion machine. If you set this thing going in the vacuum of space, it would immediately begin to radiate energy away in the form of electromagnetic radiation, also known as light. Friction in the joints would heat the metal and the heat would radiate away. Eventually it would come to a stop. Say it with me now, all together: There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. **Washoe** is correct in saying that “simply moving forever is not impossible”, but only in the scenario where all an object does is travel through space with a constant velocity. The difference there is no part of the object moves relative to any other part of the object - that causes, broadly, friction, and hence energy loss. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/4 "2010-11-03T06:08:18Z")
Ah.I didn’t know that such a device needs to be “capable of doing work”. The [linked toy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibFtijBf3zE) is just that, a toy. Not sure if it runs on batteries. My question is now - if I were to put this toy into motion in the vacuum of space, how long could it go without batteries? ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/5 "2010-11-03T06:20:46Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > Eventually it would come to a stop. Not to be a PITA but can we get a ballpark figure on “eventuallly”? I felt that my OP was kind of silly but I want to believe that it would spin for a good long time. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/6 "2010-11-03T07:15:51Z")
I now have found that this toy is Kinetic/magnetic. I would love to see a post by **CHRONOS** with any info regarding life expectancy in vacuum of space. Thanks for letting me play in GQ. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/7 "2010-11-03T15:23:13Z")
Looking at the device, it looks like it needs gravity to initiate a pendulum effect. In which case, outer space wouldn’t be particularly beneficial. But ignoring that, the lack of atmosphere would result in reduced resistance in the pendulum, however you’d also boil or sublimate away any lubricating oils on the bearings in the pendulum So it’s probably a wash – it wouldn’t run noticeably longer than on Earth is my guess. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/8 "2010-11-03T18:46:56Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > Not to be a PITA but can we get a ballpark figure on “eventuallly”? I felt that my OP was kind of silly but I want to believe that it would spin for a good long time. Hard to say without at least a rough estimate of the coefficients of friction in the joints. **Finagle** makes a good point about losing lubrication to the vacuum via sublimation. That’ll drive the friction up rapidly. However, heat loss via radiation is surprisingly inefficient, so depending on the cohesiveness of the lubrication and the design of the joint, it could freeze up within seconds or run for hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/9 "2010-11-03T19:06:08Z")
[del]Ah, the toy that prompted my “Goofs” entry on IMDb for _Iron Man 2_.[/del] Which now appears to have been removed. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/10 "2010-11-03T19:22:58Z")
Bearing friction is probably much more significant for one of those things than air resistance, anyway. So it’d take about as long to stop in a vacuum as it would in normal Earthly conditions. Now, there are some desk-toys which use magnets for most or all of their bearings, and those would probably go much longer in vacuum, but there’s still always _some_ dissipative force, from _something_. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/11 "2010-11-03T20:46:56Z")
I had a [desktop toy that was similar](http://www.amazon.com/Westminster-Space-Shuttle-Kinetic-Art/dp/B000Z9C5P4/ref=pd_sbs_op_6) (but costs 1/30 as much!) It has a magnet in the base and requires a battery, I imagine it’s a small electromagnet. I think without gravity it would reach equilibrium relatively quickly. ---
**Author:** ![wbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/439d5e/32.png) [@wbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wbeaty)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/12 "2010-11-04T02:12:41Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I had a [desktop toy that was similar](http://www.amazon.com/Westminster-Space-Shuttle-Kinetic-Art/dp/B000Z9C5P4/ref=pd_sbs_op_6) Note that all these little gadgets are powered by the H.E. Stockman one-transistor magnetic pendulum motor, [http://ajp.aapt.org/resource/1/ajpias/v29/i6/p374\_s2](http://ajp.aapt.org/resource/1/ajpias/v29/i6/p374_s2) I hear that Stockman never made any money off the invention. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/13 "2010-11-04T02:31:01Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > Not sure if it runs on batteries. > [@](#): > > Ideal for conference rooms, medical offices, exhibition areas, waiting rooms, display windows, and foyers, this display provides sophisticated style and unmatched entertainment! > > Runs on 4 "AA’ batteries (not included). [http://www.scientificsonline.com/swinging-sticks.html](http://www.scientificsonline.com/swinging-sticks.html) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/14 "2010-11-04T02:50:07Z")
People pay $289 for [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibFtijBf3zE)? I’m in the wrong business. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/15 "2010-11-04T02:56:34Z")
Power it by 12 year old boys, call it swinging _ **dicks** _, and it will run until the laughter stops. Which will probably be as long as our species lasts. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/17 "2016-10-20T13:15:16Z")
Reported ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/18 "2016-10-20T13:16:22Z")
Reported. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edmund-scientific-swinging-sticks/559304/19 "2016-10-20T13:22:04Z")
Ninja’ed on the reporting.