# Educate a Gilbert And Sullivan Tyro **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368 "2009-11-29T19:37:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/1 "2009-11-29T19:37:06Z")
So I’ve just seen my very first Gilbert and Sullivan play - it was a high school production of The Pirates of Penzance - and I believe I may be hooked. So I know that the big three are The Mikado, HMS Pinafore and Pirates but the most popular aren’t always the best. For that reason I come to you all with two questions: 1)What is the best of Gilbert and Sullivan’s plays? 2)Which play has the best of their patter songs? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/2 "2009-11-29T19:39:40Z")
Moved Great Debates --\> Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/3 "2009-11-29T19:47:36Z")
Thanks, sorry about that. I went to GD because I’m told G&S afficianados can get rowdy - if Frasier is anything to go by 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/4 "2009-11-29T20:01:44Z")
I lean toward the Mikado, especially after seeing Itzhak Perlman in it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/5 "2009-11-29T21:21:35Z")
I believe the best, or at least best-known, G&S patter-song is the [“Major-General’s Song”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Major_General) from _Pirates of the Penzance._ BTW, if you’re getting into G&S, I highly recommend you rent a DVD of [_Topsy-Turvy._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy-Turvy) It’s about the conception, writing and production of _The Mikado._ ---
**Author:** ![Sine\_Nomine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sine_nomine/32/513_2.png) [@Sine\_Nomine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sine_Nomine)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/6 "2009-11-29T22:02:44Z")
I adore Gilbert & Sullivan, so it’s hard for me to pick a best. The big three are certainly very good and worth seeing. Of the lesser-known operettas, my favorites are _The Gondoliers_ and _Patience_. _The Sorcerer_ has a nifty patter song, “My Name is John Wellington Wells.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/7 "2009-11-29T22:20:33Z")
> [@Sine\_Nomine](#): > > _The Sorcerer_ has a nifty patter song, “My Name is John Wellington Wells.” No one performs _The Sorcerer_ ☹ (if anyone knows of a good recorded performance I’d greatly appreciate it.) \*The Yeomen of the Guard \*is my personal favourite with _Pinafore_ at #2. But they’re all good. Just don’t expect the plots to make a great deal of sense. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/8 "2009-11-29T22:57:30Z")
> [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > No one performs _The Sorcerer_ ☹ (if anyone knows of a good recorded performance I’d greatly appreciate it.) > > \*The Yeomen of the Guard \*is my personal favourite with _Pinafore_ at #2. But they’re all good. Just don’t expect the plots to make a great deal of sense. I saw _The Sorcerer_ once. It was put on by the Stanford Savoyards maybe 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/9 "2009-11-29T23:05:44Z")
> [@The Lurker Above](#): > > No one performs The Sorcerer ☹ We did _The Sorcerer_ one year at my school. We also did _Utopia, Limited_. Our musical director liked doing the lesser performed ones. Musically I think the best are _The Yeoman of the Guard_ and _Iolanthe_. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/10 "2009-11-29T23:06:02Z")
Seconded on _Topsy-Turvy_. I love that movie! I’m baffled as to why the film of _[The Pirates of Penzance](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086112/)_ **still** hasn’t come out on DVD. I know G&S purists might have some problems with it, but it was a great introduction to their work. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/11 "2009-11-29T23:16:06Z")
My personal favourite of their second-tier works is **Ruddigore** for the character of Mad Margaret and for Robin’s ancestors berating him for the uninspired crimes he commits. A close second is **Patience** , but only because a good friend of mine does an scary-good Bunthorne. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/12 "2009-11-29T23:24:55Z")
_Iolanthe_ has a really great patter song, “When You’re Lying Awake”, featuring both verbal dexterity and an amusing description of a really strange nightmare. Musically, the Finale to Act 1 takes a lot of beating too. Most G&S’s also feature one genuine [Tear Jerker](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TearJerker), too, and Io is no exception with the sniffle-inducing “He Loves! If In The Bygone Years” sung by Iolanthe to the Lord Chancellor. _Yeoman_ actually goes further with a [Downer Ending](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DownerEnding) with Point the jester collapsing senseless, although it’s not clearly established whether he does in fact die of a broken heart. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/13 "2009-11-30T01:59:54Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Seconded on _Topsy-Turvy_. I love that movie! > > I’m baffled as to why the film of _[The Pirates of Penzance](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086112/)_ **still** hasn’t come out on DVD. I know G&S purists might have some problems with it, but it was a great introduction to their work. It may not be on DVD, but it appears to be available on Hulu - not quite the same, but still better than nothing: [Hulu](http://www.hulu.com/the-pirates-of-penzance) ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/14 "2009-11-30T03:48:03Z")
Nitpick: they’re not plays, they’re operettas. ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/15 "2009-11-30T05:03:28Z")
I actually played the title role in an avant-garde production of _The Mikado_ about fifteen years ago and had a roaring, campy good time in the part. I highly recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/16 "2009-11-30T23:16:29Z")
> [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > No one performs _The Sorcerer_ ☹ (if anyone knows of a good recorded performance I’d greatly appreciate it.) > > \*The Yeomen of the Guard \*is my personal favourite with _Pinafore_ at #2. But they’re all good. Just don’t expect the plots to make a great deal of sense. Thanks for this. I’m glad that you suggested I not expect the plots to make much sense. Pirates left me staggered by the lyrical virtuosity but the story (and the ending) left a little to be desired. I’m really looking forward to better acquainting myself with G&S 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/17 "2009-11-30T23:25:58Z")
> [@Spiny\_Norman](#): > > It may not be on DVD, but it appears to be available on Hulu - not quite the same, but still better than nothing: [Hulu](http://www.hulu.com/the-pirates-of-penzance) Well, I WAS going to try to be productive this afternoon… ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/18 "2009-11-30T23:28:54Z")
Thank you all for your suggestions! **Sine Nomine** - I checked out John Wellington Wells on Youtube, you’re right it is cool! **CommaSense** - Thanks for the nitpick 🙂 I really wasn’t sure if I should call them plays, light operas, operettas or operas (I was pretty sure they weren’t operas). Consider my ignorance fought on this front. Any other particular favourite songs I should hunt down (they are still called songs right ;))? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/19 "2009-11-30T23:51:41Z")
“Play” vs “operetta” is like “rectangle” and “square.” ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368/20 "2009-11-30T23:57:15Z")
Run out in a frenzy and buy a copy of _Topsy-Turvy_ this instant. You won’t regret it. In addition to the songs from The Mikado, it has snippets from earlier works including “The Sorcerer” “Patience” and “Princess Ida”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-a-gilbert-and-sullivan-tyro/519368.md?page=2)