# Educate me about South Asian music! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 30, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849 "2004-05-30T22:57:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/1 "2004-05-30T22:57:42Z")
Yesterday I stumbled across a concert of various South Asian music groups in Dundas Square. I like some of the South Asian music I’ve heard, but I know next to nothing about it. For reference, I generally listen to rock, folk, dance, electonica. I like the Indian-inflienced rock music of the sixties. I like the Anglo-Indian ‘hybrid’ music of Sheila Chandra–and had the great good fortune to see her live at the Power Plant in Toronto about ten years ago. Can some obliging Dopers clue me in about South Asian music? Artists, types of music, etc? know that there’s a classical tradition, even though I don’t know much abut it. (The name Ravi Shankar comes to mind). What is happening with popular music? At this concert there were listings for DJs and such as well, and there were booths selling what looked to be Indian and Arabian dance music. A quick Google yielded the website for [Kazak](http://www.kazak.ca/kazak_hangama.html), who performed there. I know this is probably as vast an undertaking as clarifying Euro-American music to someone from India… ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/2 "2004-05-31T00:00:23Z")
I am a sitar player, so I’ll give a few hints. First of all, there is Indian classical and other kinds of Indian music. Let’s start with the classical tradition. A really good page about this has been put together by my tabla teacher: [http://www.chandrakantha.com/](http://www.chandrakantha.com/) Generally, Indian classical tradition is divided into two: Hindustani music from the north and Karnatik music from the south. I know Hindustani music the best. Hindustani instrumental music is descended from the vocal style and is based around raags or ragas, or musical modes with certain rules attached to them, which often embody a time of day, a season, or a particular mood. There is a usual order to a piece, with it starting out in a slow alap movement, then a jor and often a jhala movement, which are increasingly fast. After this (which can take up to an hour), one starts with gats, in which the voice or the instrument is accompanied by drums (usually the tabla hand drums). There is a slow and fast gat movement, each centered on a tune, usually in a 16 beat cycle. Then there is an extremely fast accompanied jhala movement to end the piece. Karnatik music is centered around ragas as well, and many are the same. The music movements are different, though. Hindustani music is performed by voice, the sitar, the sarod (a guitar-like instrument plucked with a piece of coconut shell), the flute, the sarangi (a fretted bowed instrument), the santoor (like a hammered dulcimer), the shenai (oboe), and a host of others. Karnatik music uses most commonly the voice, the violin or a veena, which is like a big sitar played with a knob slide, accompanied by other kinds of drums – often pakhawaj or mridingam. Good Hindustani classical artists: Ravi Shankar – sitar, played in a unique style descended from his training by Allaudin Khan, a sarod player. Ali Akhbar Khan – sarod, son of Allaudin Khan Vilayat Khan – considered master of the sitar, his style predominates among most young artists (as many of them are related to him – Rais Khan, Imrat Khan, Shahid Parvez, Shujaat Khan, Nishat Khan, etc.) Hariprasad Chaurasia – flute, reinvigorated the flute as a classical instrument Shivkumar Sharma – santoor Nikhil Banerjee – sitar, of the “gayaki” or singing style Zakir Hussain – predominant tabla player, son of Alla Rakha, who accompanied Ravi Shankar a lot, won a few Grammys if memory serves. Imrat Khan – brother of Vilayat, sitar and surbahar (bass sitar) Pandit Jasraj – voice Karnatik violin – I really like Lalgudi Jayaraman. There are a number of outgrowths from classical music. There is film music, often composed from a classical style (check out Ravi Shankar’s music for “Pater Panchali”), there are dhuns (music based on folk songs), there is light classical or thumri, and a bunch of other stuff. The Indian film industry is huge and it is a huge source of music. A.R. Rahman has been one of the most influential film composers. Vocal artists hired to sing over actresses’ dance numbers (“playback singers”) like Asha Bhosle and Lata Mangeshkar are also widely popular. There is of course also Hindu and Muslim devotional music. Perhaps the most familiar of these is Qawwali, which is Sufi devotional music made popular by Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. Overlapping the film music is Indian pop. Much of this is in a genre called bhangra, which to my understanding is mostly dance music, often from films. There are a bunch of really popular bhangra people out there, all of which are escaping me right now except Panjabi MC, who has that song with Jay-Z (based on the Knight Rider theme) and Daler Mehndi, who used to drive a cab in L.A. if memory serves me right. There is also Indian fusion. You mentioned Sheila Chandra. You can also look for Shakti, which features some top-notch classical musicians (Zakir Hussain, L. Shankar, Mandolin Shankar, Hariprasad Chaurasia) with John MacLaughlin (the world’s fastest guitarist). There is also Ry Cooder and Vishwan Mohan Bhatt’s amazing album “Meeting by the River.” From there is a pretty active field of Indian techno and house/lounge music. Try artists like Talvin Singh (his Anokha: Soundz of the Asian Underground is a good sampler disc of a bunch of artists), Thievery Corporation, and all the Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan remixes out there. Dan the Automator has a few discs of Indian film remixes (“Bombay the Hard Way: Guns, Cars and Sitars”, think brownsploitation music.) Also Karsh Kale, DJ Cheb I Sabbah, and Asian Dub Foundation. I hope that is a pretty good start. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/3 "2004-05-31T00:18:58Z")
[Daler Mehndi](http://www.deviantart.com/view/3387190/) flash video (kind of funny). My friend here says that this is one of his more popular songs. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/4 "2004-05-31T02:34:38Z")
Cooolll! Thank you, **edwino**! Definitely going to start searching things out. ---
**Author:** ![caligynephobia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@caligynephobia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligynephobia)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/5 "2004-05-31T02:53:24Z")
I’ve been noticing a lot of Bhangra in the record stores here in the US after \*Bend it Like Beckham \* (movie) came out and Panjabi MC’s collaboration with Jay-Z made a brief MTV appearance. Some pretty interesting stuff if you’re interested in more dance-oriented Indian or Euro-Indian pop. Search for Bhangra on amazon or something and you’ll find quite some fun stuff. My 3yo loves to shake his little booty to my Bhangra CDs. Good beat. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/6 "2004-05-31T07:16:26Z")
If you’re looking for more Western-inspired (well, Western, but performed by bands who are first- or second-generation Brits) music, try **Asian Dub Foundation** (seminal song: _Free Satpal Ram_) and **Cornershop** (_Brimful of Asha_). If you want modern Indian pop, **Indus Creed** (now defunct, I think) did some really good **H&tB** -style rock; **Dahler Mehndi** is hilarious (not on purpose) and **Lucky Ali** is brilliant. Incomprehensible to English-speakers, a bit like that fella in Sting’s _Desert Rose_ video, but still worth listening to. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/7 "2004-05-31T12:19:14Z")
Tabla Beat Science is a mixture of hip-hop/electronica beats and tabla by Zakir Hussein. They have a studio album, Tala Matrix; a live album, Live in San Francisco; and a DVD that I haven’t seen or heard yet. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/8 "2004-05-31T13:00:06Z")
More by the apparently prolific Zakir Hussain: a project with John McLaughlin (the jazz guitarist) called Remember Shakti. Shakti was, apparently, something they did together in the '70s – I don’t know that stuff, but the reunion stuff is very cool. AMG just lists their first album, a double album done (IIRC) in the studio – there are also two live albums that I love: **The Believer** and **Saturday Night in Bombay**. Here’s a link to [Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dmusic%26field-keywords%3Dremember%252520shakti/104-4130362-7979142) – AMG only has the double album, not either of the live albums, and they mention the reunion as an aside to the Shakti project. (Okay, [here’s](http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDMISS70311081751313239&sql=Btsj97i2jg7or) the AMC link. Satisfied?) Yes, I did email them with the info – I’d like to see them do a separate entry for Remember Shakti because I love those two albums so much. The other “above the title” musicians in Remember Shakti ar U. Shrinivas on mandolin and V. Selvaganesh on kanjira, ghatam, and mridangam, none of which I know what they are. Cool albums. I recommend – and I’m scribbling notes busily here on other recommendations. Thanks for an amazing intro to the tradition, **edwino**! [hijack]Hi **Sunspace** , honey! how’s things?[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/9 "2004-05-31T20:07:44Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > More by the apparently prolific Zakir Hussain: a project with John McLaughlin (the jazz guitarist) called Remember Shakti. Shakti was, apparently, something they did together in the '70s – I don’t know that stuff, but the reunion stuff is very cool. AMG just lists their first album, a double album done (IIRC) in the studio – there are also two live albums that I love: **The Believer** and **Saturday Night in Bombay**. > > … > > The other “above the title” musicians in Remember Shakti ar U. Shrinivas on mandolin and V. Selvaganesh on kanjira, ghatam, and mridangam, none of which I know what they are. Mandolin Srinivas, not Mandolin Shankar, my mistake… I saw Remember Shakti when they were here in November. Kind of concert that makes you not want to listen to music for a while after – so many notes! It was good though. Both Shakti and Remember Shakti have worked on the same principle: a North Indian drummer (Zakir Hussain), a South Indian drummer (Viknarayam in the old Shakti and Selvaganesh in Remember Shakti), John McLaughlin on guitar, and an Indian instrumentalist (Shankar on violin in the original, Srinivas now, Hariprasad on the live album IIRC). Those instruments are South Indian percussion: the kanjira is a tambourine, the ghatam is essentially a clay pot, and the mridangam is a two-headed cylindrical drum. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/10 "2004-05-31T21:19:15Z")
:o **edwino** , I don’t know how I managed to skip that whole paragraph in your first post – sorry! Thanks for the info on those instruments – I’d guessed they were percussion, but wasn’t sure. That concert sounds incredibly cool – I don’t see a location for you, where was it? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/11 "2004-05-31T21:35:41Z")
Thanks again for the info! \I’m definitely going to have to find some downloads of these… \ I’m doing fine! How’s things with you? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/12 "2004-05-31T21:40:43Z")
**Really Not All That Bright** , Cornershop was big on the radio a couple of years ago here, and also Kula Shaker, although I’m not sure how South Asian Kula Shaker was; I heard they morphed quite radically during their history. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/13 "2004-05-31T21:43:28Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I’m not sure how South Asian Kula Shaker was; I heard they morphed quite radically during their history. From beginning to end, they were middle-class ignorant middleclass English kids who thought the sitar sounded, y’know, cool. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/14 "2004-06-01T02:07:40Z")
In it for looks rather than spirit, eh? Hmm. I may have gotten their only good album then… ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/15 "2004-06-01T03:33:48Z")
Agreed that the Cornershop album “When I Was Born for the Seventh Time” is fantastic. A lot of the tracks are produced by Dan the Automator, who has done quite a bit of Indian-inspired pop. I have had the Kula Shaker CD on my bookshelf in the “sell back” pile for over a year now. I would also suggest the Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan/Michael Brook albums on the RealWorld label (“Night Song” and “Mustt Mustt”) as well as Michael Brook and U. Srinivas. All very good fusion stuff. **Sunspace** : Both [http://www.emusic.com](http://www.emusic.com) (legal) and [http://www.allofmp3.com](http://www.allofmp3.com) (questionably legal) have a wide selection of all kinds of Indian music. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educate-me-about-south-asian-music/247849/16 "2004-06-01T03:53:05Z")
Thanks!