Sailor, this thread is already approaching Great Debates level, if not BBQ Pit, and I’m sure no one wants to see it closed down. But I have to disagree again with you when you said “so far no conservatives have accused any liberals of being motivated by anything less than their sincere beliefs.” My post was in response to yours where you said another person’s post was “propaganda BS” and “liberals have done a pretty good job of spreading the idea that conservatives are motivated by greed, selfishness and evil intentions” and “it is amazing how the word (liberal) has been totally perverted” and “I find many mainstream liberals go way overboard in accusing the other side of evilness.” These blanket condemnations are hardly unbiased.
And I also disagree with your dismissal of Watt as a fringe politician. You could dismiss him as such if he was an elected official chosen by a few thousand voters or if he was a minor official who was rubber stamped into office. But Watt was an appointed cabinet level official, whose views were well known when he was selected. If you dismiss people at his level as being part of the fringe, who’s left? The President and Vice President?
Again, I’m not seeking an argument. I just want to point out that it is as wrong to condemn liberals as it is to condemn conservatives. Both sides of the ideological spectrum fortunately have people who are seeking to do what they believe is right and unfortunately also have people who are doing what they know is wrong.
You must get your info from CNN. Another interpretation is that said millionaire might take that hundred thousand dollars, start a new company which eventually employs 10 people at $50,000/annum. Or Congress could just vote themselves a raise.
Another interpretation is that said millionaire might take that hundred thousand dollars, start a new company which eventually employs 10 people at $50,000/annum. Or Congress could just vote themselves a raise.
Well, I wasn’t going to resurrect the thread for this, but since rebelyell has done it already…
Lib, that was a joke–a cynical view of a political party just like the comments about Reps, Demos, and Greens. I understand the Libertarian position–as it happens, I voted Libertarian in the last election, for all the difference it made in Texas–but couldn’t resist the impulse to make a cynical remark. It’s something I’m good at.
The section of the post on the origins of the political senses of “liberal” and “conservative” was the only part not meant in jest.
I might add that the classic definitions of liberal and conservative are quite different than what people use nowadays. Conservatives were typically monarchists, believers in state power, in favor of state religion, nationalists, militarists, and in favor of the status quo. Liberals were typically in favor of capitalism, religious freedom, civil liberities, republicanism, and cosmopolitanism.
The thing is, in this country the “status quo”, WAS liberalism. So todays conservatives often hold “liberal” views, like being in favor of capitalism. But many of today’s conservatives are really old school conservatives…Pat Buchanan comes to mind. If you read a lot of extreme right wing stuff you’ll find a lot of hostility to capitalism. Which makes sense, because capitalism is a great eroder of the status quo.
And “liberals” today are often in favor of government regulation of the economy, if not outright socialism. Classic liberals were against things like tarriffs, government monopolies, and such, but eventually liberalism came to mean socialist. And many liberals fight to maintain a statist status quo against the free market.
So nowadays, many people call themselves conservative because they are liberal, or liberal because they are conservative. Kind of confusing…
Should you ever find yourself face-to-face with an actual election, you might also want to compare your views with those of the candidate. A great source for election information is Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/ . It contains the biographies, voting records and positions of 12,000 candidates for public office. (They’re working on expanding that to 40,000).
The organization’s founding board members included Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Barry Goldwater, George McGovern and Newt Gingrich. That about covers the political spectrum (more or maybe less).