# Education, Middle-class identification, and those who claimno religion in Politics. This might sur **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 3, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068 "2018-08-03T20:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/21 "2018-08-03T23:58:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The GOP sells the “blame the others” package Especially “others” who have higher melanin content. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/22 "2018-08-04T00:07:58Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Especially “others” who have higher melanin content. Yes. And in the absence of an effective other sales pitch a fair number of those whites who voted for Obama were sold by that. Another version from the Left was to have “the rich” be “the other” and that worked some too. Is there another approach that does not focus on blaming an other? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/23 "2018-08-04T01:55:16Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > 3 ) Democrats are more likely to have no religion. I like to go bowling on Sunday mornings. In fact, I’m rather religious about it. Does that count? But seriously, your data is correct. In fact, that’s me in the corner; that’s me in the spotlight, losing my religion. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/24 "2018-08-04T04:36:32Z")
Imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/25 "2018-08-04T05:59:27Z")
Wait, **silver lining** is pulling up another years-old article to prove his point, which is tenuous at best? Color me shocked. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/26 "2018-08-04T06:22:29Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Color me shocked. Okay. me 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/27 "2018-08-04T07:50:33Z")
Is that Big Sur? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/28 "2018-08-04T08:11:35Z")
I would guess that it depends heavily on which type of college or postgrad degree. I hear engineers are more likely to be Republican than Democrat. But I would guess that MAs and PhDs in things like literature, social sciences, arts, etc. lean heavily blue. STEM (engineering excepted) and medicine might be a 50-50 split? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/29 "2018-08-04T14:38:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I would guess that it depends heavily on which type of college or postgrad degree. I hear engineers are more likely to be Republican than Democrat. But I would guess that MAs and PhDs in things like literature, social sciences, arts, etc. lean heavily blue. STEM (engineering excepted) and medicine might be a 50-50 split? According to [http://verdantlabs.com/politics\_of\_professions/](http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/), engineering as a whole has a pretty significant Democratic lean, at least by campaign contributions. The infographic does show which way different professions lean. There’s some interesting results - while doctors as a whole are close to 50/50, pediatricians and urologists are fairly partisan and mirror each other. ETA: **silver lining** talks about some college. He conveniently ignored the associate/bachelor degree crowd, AKA the vast majority of college graduates. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/30 "2018-08-04T14:39:57Z")
Double post ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/31 "2018-08-04T15:25:45Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Especially “others” who have higher melanin content. Yup, which again nobody wants to admit. Why aren’t the black working class or latino working class jumping on the GOP bandwagon? They are struggling economically too. People just don’t want to face reality. If there is a way to regain the white working class without giving up our principles as democrats (like equality, multiculturalism, egalitarianism, etc) I’m all ears. Even when you control for income, there is still a massive voting gap between education levels among whites (the education gap doesn’t really exist among non-whites as far as I know). People say it is economics, but if it is economics why aren’t non-whites buying into the Trump train and the GOP? Also why is it that no matter how much money you make, there is still a 30-40 point education gap among whites? > **[Even Among The Wealthy, Education Predicts Trump Support](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/even-among-the-wealthy-education-predicts-trump-support/)** > > Last week, my colleague Nate Silver used census data to show that education, not income, determined the shift from Republican to Democratic votes in the 2016 el… If the white working class are leaving the democrats because the democrats are seen as multicultural, multiracial pussies, I don’t know how to win them back. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/32 "2018-08-04T20:14:16Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > … If the white working class are leaving the democrats because the democrats are seen as multicultural, multiracial pussies, I don’t know how to win them back. A big if given, again, that a fair number of them voted for Obama. OTOH it might be fair to say that they are _vulnerable_ to storylines that appeal to racial prejudice, anti-immigrant sentiment, and populist nativist themes. This is a demographic that became unemployed during the recession and the recovery had not yet reached them by the time of the election. It has to some degree now, in that unemployment is low enough that this demographic is getting hired too … but the pay is still crap and not keeping up with inflation. That lack of job, that increase in insecurity, were the prime drivers. The racism, the anti-immigrantism, the populism, were the simple hooks that grabbed onto those drivers. And in a general campaign you need a simple hook to grab onto the drivers of voting behaviors. Clinton had economic plans that included them but they were wonky reads full of actual details that could work. “I’m with her” is no hook and “stronger together” was only a bit better and not at all effective as a hook for this demographic’s drivers. “Yes we can!” and “Change we can believe in” they were not. HRC did not ignore the lesser educated white voters but she came off as speaking down to or at them and did not offer an aspirational vision that included them as an integral and respected part of the team whose problems and challenges mattered. The Sanders residual only reinforced that perception. You win them back by giving them a more positive and inclusive but still simple hook that tells them explicitly that they matter too with a candidate that they can relate to (character-wise, not by gender or race per se). Do that in a way that does not lose any non-white turnout and you are golden. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/33 "2018-08-04T22:52:42Z")
Aside on those professions pie charts: Most of them, I can see reasons for, often urban-rural. But why the big split between carpenters (significantly Democratic) and plumbers (significantly Republican)? Both are split about evenly between urban and rural, both require the same level of education, both deal with similar clientele, both make similar amounts of money. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/34 "2018-08-04T23:30:14Z")
Some compare and contrast between [plumbers](https://datausa.io/profile/soc/472150/) and [carpenters](https://datausa.io/profile/soc/472031/). Not sure why but more plumbers in Texas and Florida and more carpenters up North. There also seems to be a fair number of carpenters with majors in the performing arts (maybe out of set design and stage crew?) and in comparison a fair number of plumbers who come from protective services. (Third place for each respectively behind business and engineering.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/35 "2018-08-04T23:45:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not sure why but more plumbers in Texas and Florida and more carpenters up North. Well, they do say it runs downhill. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/36 "2018-08-05T00:40:34Z")
Plumbing has a higher barrier to entry and is more thought of as a lifelong career. The requirements for a plumbing license include training, testing and thousands of hours work experience (I think that it’s 5000 hours in my state - two and one half years of full time employment.) I think that carpentry is usually learned on the job. It’s been a while since I checked the code, but I’m sure that all plumbing must be done by a certified plumber or signed off by a master plumber before being signed off by the inspector. Carpentry (residential, at least) just needs an inspector’s signature (At least it used to be that way.) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/37 "2018-08-05T00:48:31Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > IOW, while _Duhbya_ was still in office. :smack: > We’ve gone from a frat boy to a man-child. Who are the Republicans going to run next? Linus van Pelt? Linus/Blanket 2020 is change I can believe in. Desperately. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/38 "2018-08-05T02:19:11Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Linus/Blanket 2020 is change I can believe in. Desperately. Make America Great Pumpkin Again! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/39 "2018-08-05T03:40:13Z")
It sounds better in the original Russian. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/40 "2018-08-05T04:42:11Z")
Probably not, mostly Russian sounds like somebody gargling in Slavic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068.md?page=3)