# Education, Middle-class identification, and those who claimno religion in Politics. This might sur **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 3, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068 "2018-08-03T20:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/41 "2018-08-05T05:36:58Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > A big if given, again, that a fair number of them voted for Obama. > > OTOH it might be fair to say that they are _vulnerable_ to storylines that appeal to racial prejudice, anti-immigrant sentiment, and populist nativist themes. > > This is a demographic that became unemployed during the recession and the recovery had not yet reached them by the time of the election. It has to some degree now, in that unemployment is low enough that this demographic is getting hired too … but the pay is still crap and not keeping up with inflation. That lack of job, that increase in insecurity, were the prime drivers. The racism, the anti-immigrantism, the populism, were the simple hooks that grabbed onto those drivers. > > And in a general campaign you need a simple hook to grab onto the drivers of voting behaviors. Clinton had economic plans that included them but they were wonky reads full of actual details that could work. “I’m with her” is no hook and “stronger together” was only a bit better and not at all effective as a hook for this demographic’s drivers. “Yes we can!” and “Change we can believe in” they were not. > > HRC did not ignore the lesser educated white voters but she came off as speaking down to or at them and did not offer an aspirational vision that included them as an integral and respected part of the team whose problems and challenges mattered. The Sanders residual only reinforced that perception. > You win them back by giving them a more positive and inclusive but still simple hook that tells them explicitly that they matter too with a candidate that they can relate to (character-wise, not by gender or race per se). Do that in a way that does not lose any non-white turnout and you are golden. I’ve come to the same conclusion–you’re spot on. Pointing out Trump’s corruption, or trying to educate his brain-washed cult followers, won’t work. And it’s not enough that your policies will help people, because people usually don’t even understand how. You have to come up with simplistic slogans. Trump won with simplistic slogans, and all he was selling was bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/42 "2018-08-05T18:33:14Z")
Samuel L. Jackson in a new ad… “I’ve had it with these mothafuckin’ lies, in this mothafuckin’ country!” OK, “melonfarmers”. “Martyr truckers” We’ll work on it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/43 "2018-08-05T19:49:08Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > You do realize that’s from _2012_, yes? Actually it’s a 2012 article about the 2008 election … but who’s counting? 😉 [Here are some 2016 figures](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html). Hillary won post-grads by a whopping 58 to 37. This was perhaps the biggest demographic to switch with the Trump-branded GOP. He said so himself: What was it? Something like _“I love the uneducated people!”_ Of course nobody here would accuse **Mr. lining** of being a T\*\*\*\*, but what is the explanation for its peculiar failures? I assume its approach to “acquiring knowledge” is to tell Google what Fake-Facts it wants to search for “Educated voters prefer Republicans.” (Though the top hit for this query is washingtonpost: “The more education a voter has, the more likely they are to vote Democratic.”) OP’s cite didn’t exactly hide the date. I don’t expect **Mr. lining** to explain how its brain misfired — he’s off starting more threads, each more preposterous than the one before. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/44 "2018-08-05T20:12:31Z")
Trump of course gets most of his support from white racists and near-racists; and even college-educated people can be racist. But, although the college-educated in general preferred Hillary, I thought that Trump eked out a small win when only _white_ diplomas are considered. [Apparently even this was wrong](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/27/upshot/trump-losing-college-educated-whites-he-never-won-them-in-the-first-place.html): _ **“The exit polls were wrong. Mr. Trump never won college-educated white voters.”** _ ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/45 "2018-08-06T03:15:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Good thing the white male population is exploding in the United States. In 2008, we comprised what, about 33% of the population? Judging by the 2016 elections, we must be what, like 70% by now? Maybe more? Doesn’t really matter what percentage of the population white males are; it depends on what part of the voting electorate they are. And I’d bet that white males are disproportionately represented in that population relative to the population at large. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/46 "2018-08-06T03:43:09Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Trump of course gets most of his support from white racists and near-racists; and even college-educated people can be racist. But, although the college-educated in general preferred Hillary, I thought that Trump eked out a small win when only _white_ diplomas are considered. > > [Apparently even this was wrong](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/27/upshot/trump-losing-college-educated-whites-he-never-won-them-in-the-first-place.html): _ **“The exit polls were wrong. Mr. Trump never won college-educated white voters.”** _ I’m not good at math, but I don’t understand that argument. Aren’t exit polls used to verify democratic elections? how could they make a simple statistical mistake like they are claiming? Also only about 60% of Americans are white now (although something like 10-15% of Americans are immigrants and not eligible to vote). How could whites w/o a college education make up 45% of voters? Over 37% of whites have a college diploma, and more educated people have higher voter turnout than less educated people. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Voter_Turnout_by_Educational_Attainment%2C_2008_US_Presidential_Election.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Voter_Turnout_by_Educational_Attainment%2C_2008_US_Presidential_Election.png) According to graphs like that, voter turnout is about 40% higher among those with a bachelors degree (vs high school) and 50% higher for post graduate. As a result, wouldn’t at minimum 37% of white voters have a college degree, and probably closer to 45-55% of white voters, due to the higher rates of voter turnout among the highly educated? If 45% of voters are whites w/o a college degree, wouldn’t the total white vote have to be 80%+ because whites with a college diploma probably made up half or more of voters (due to 37% of whites having a college degree combined with higher voter turnout among that group)? I don’t think that is realistic. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/47 "2018-08-06T04:09:57Z")
And guess who hasn’t shown up in 2 days, ever since people with functional critical thinking skills started to critique his OP? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/48 "2018-08-06T10:32:59Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And guess who hasn’t shown up in 2 days, ever since people with functional critical thinking skills started to critique his OP? Many people in paid employment get the weekend off. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/49 "2018-08-06T14:07:25Z")
… and lose access to their computers in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/50 "2018-08-06T14:17:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Wesley Clark says Democrats are losing whites w/o a college diploma. > > Look at the education gap between whites with a college degree vs whites without and their voting patterns. [![](http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/11/09125718/FT_16.11.09_exitPolls_education.png) ](http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/11/09125718/FT_16.11.09_exitPolls_education.png) Correct. Dem’s are losing the middle class. Some of their new politicians are fine with using the socialism as it appeals to their have not base. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/51 "2018-08-06T14:19:49Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And guess who hasn’t shown up in 2 days, ever since people with functional critical thinking skills started to critique his OP? Hello there. I have a life, family, a sometimes busy job that requires travel, too many meetings with executives, and weekend plans. Sorry if I don’t post every day. Judging by the replies here, this thread has the attention of many. But I’ll stand on points made, Dem’s are losing the middle class and the group which includes some college **and** college graduates on election day. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/52 "2018-08-06T14:28:42Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Judging by the replies here, this thread has the attention of many. But I’ll stand on points made, Dem’s are losing the middle class and the group which includes some college **and** college graduates on election day. And will you address the point that your citations are from 2012 and pertain to an election a decade ago? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/53 "2018-08-06T14:43:36Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > [http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/11/09125718/FT\_16.11.09\_exitPolls\_education.png](http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/11/09125718/FT_16.11.09_exitPolls_education.png) > > Correct. Dem’s are losing the middle class. Some of their new politicians are fine with using the socialism as it appeals to their have not base. Holy crap! Socialism?? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/54 "2018-08-06T14:44:43Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Hello there. I have a life, family, a sometimes busy job that requires travel, too many meetings with executives, and weekend plans. Sorry if I don’t post every day. > > Judging by the replies here, this thread has the attention of many. But I’ll stand on points made, Dem’s are losing the middle class and the group which includes some college **and** college graduates on election day. That’s too bad. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/55 "2018-08-06T14:47:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Holy crap! Socialism?? The socialism. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/56 "2018-08-06T14:50:57Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The socialism. That’s a strange way to put it. Hey, **Silver lining** -Where are you from? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/57 "2018-08-06T15:09:14Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > But I’ll stand on points made, Dem’s are losing the middle class and the group which includes some college **and** college graduates on election day. Is English your first language? “Are losing” and “includes” are examples of what we call [**the present tense.**](http://eslyes.com/nnse/) Yet you start with data ten years old and ignore that the trend is completely [**opposite**](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/opposite) to the summary I just excerpted. Help us out here. Do the links we offer not work for you? What gives? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/58 "2018-08-06T16:21:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Is English your first language? “Are losing” and “includes” are examples of what we call [**the present tense.**](http://eslyes.com/nnse/) Yet you start with data ten years old and ignore that the trend is completely [**opposite**](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/opposite) to the summary I just excerpted. > > Help us out here. Do the links we offer not work for you? What gives? Obviously what happened is that he was in a meeting with executives–or maybe rushing to catch a business flight–and he suddenly remembered this important data from 10 years ago, and just had to make sure that everyone on the Straight Dope Message Board was aware of it. Jeez. Give the guy a break. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/59 "2018-08-06T16:55:20Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > [http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/11/09125718/FT\_16.11.09\_exitPolls\_education.png](http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/11/09125718/FT_16.11.09_exitPolls_education.png) > > Correct. Dem’s are losing the middle class. Some of their new politicians are fine with using the socialism as it appeals to their have not base. Democrats are losing whites w/o a college education who have authoritarian tendencies and reject multiculturalism. I saw a study which found that after you control for authoritarianism, nativism, bigotry and misogyny, the education gap among whites disappears. The democrats as a whole are not losing the middle class. The dems are losing a subsection of white voters who do not like the democrats policy of egalitarianism. Granted this is a problem for the democrats. Whites w/o a college degree make up 30-45% of voters (depending on which poll you look at). So losing their support is a big deal. But the issue is not economics. That is just an argument the right makes to demonize the left. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068/60 "2018-08-06T18:39:27Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The socialism. Yes, some of the younger Democrats are embarrassing the word socialism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/education-middle-class-identification-and-those-who-claimno-religion-in-politics-this-might-sur/819068.md?page=4)