# Educators! Come rant! it's that time of year! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971 "2007-04-28T18:45:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/81 "2007-05-09T16:49:38Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] I teach COMPUTER SCIENCE. Why did you think you could find this program on the Web and I couldn’t? [/QUOTE] Duh, Old folks don’t know computers. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/82 "2007-05-10T12:44:43Z")
I teach in an elementary school. All I have is…this is one frustrating and largely thankless job. Oh, and to the seventh graders who think I’m not going to catch you copying stuff directly off the internet, forget it. _Native English speakers_ have trouble using the word “whom” correctly, no way did you write that yourself. Geez. How stupid do you think I am? Well, my sixth graders apparently think it’s “really dumb” because they think they can whisper answers to each other during a test without me noticing. Not to mention: you’re going to cheat off of _him_? Are you _trying_ to fail? ---
**Author:** ![Shecky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Shecky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shecky)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/83 "2007-05-10T14:31:23Z")
Oh, here’s another one: to the darling fellow students in my classes: If you say you’re a double major, you should probably be taking classes in both disciplines. You may be a Marketing Management major, but you’re not a Marketing AND Management double major. You haven’t taken any classes for the Administration part. It’s not a double major, it’s a long single major, you twits. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/84 "2007-05-10T18:28:17Z")
[QUOTE=Kyla] I teach in an elementary school. All I have is…this is one frustrating and largely thankless job. Oh, and to the seventh graders who think I’m not going to catch you copying stuff directly off the internet, forget it. _Native English speakers_ have trouble using the word “whom” correctly, no way did you write that yourself. Geez. How stupid do you think I am? Well, my sixth graders apparently think it’s “really dumb” because they think they can whisper answers to each other during a test without me noticing. Not to mention: you’re going to cheat off of _him_? Are you _trying_ to fail? [/QUOTE] My department head (college) is fond of saying, “Students have the right to fail.” Well, some of them certainly avail themselves of that right! ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/85 "2007-05-23T21:03:58Z")
[QUOTE=Projammer] Please tell me that someone slapped this student. That an instructor “made me think” is the highest praise I can give. [/QUOTE] I just clarified this with the instructor in question. The student’s exact words on her evaluation were: “She was only supposed to teach me English–not make me think!” ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/86 "2007-05-24T01:22:15Z")
[QUOTE=vivalostwages] I just clarified this with the instructor in question. The student’s exact words on her evaluation were: “She was only supposed to teach me English–not make me think!” [/QUOTE] I have to wonder, do they think it’s supposed to work like The Matrix? You lecture them for an hour, their eyes flutter for a second, and suddenly they know kung-fu? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/87 "2007-05-24T02:19:32Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] I have to wonder, do they think it’s supposed to work like The Matrix? You lecture them for an hour, their eyes flutter for a second, and suddenly they know kung-fu? [/QUOTE] Yes. Everything else is instantaneous, why not learning? Damn kids. _rocks on the porch and knits_ ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/88 "2007-05-24T10:49:02Z")
Maybe part of freshman orientation should include the following notice: This is not a game. There are no powerups here. There are no replays. There are no shortcuts. You are not 1337. Just because something is not fun, does not make it unfair. If you use cheat codes or gold farmers, however, you will be booted. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/89 "2007-05-26T12:22:10Z")
Three of my seventh graders turned in plaigiarised essays last week. They were all copies of… wait for it… the sample essay in their writing textbook. The essay we read aloud in class. That’s what they turned in. Sometimes the stupid is so thick it’s hard to breathe. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2007, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/90 "2007-05-27T08:58:51Z")
It is a computer course. We learn new software. No, if you do not have the software at home, you cannot do the homework there. Student: “Why not?” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/91 "2007-05-27T22:13:59Z")
Sniffle. Today was graduation day and they all look so cute in their robes and caps and their parents are taking pictures right and left and so proud of them. And most of them really did put in some good work and some of them accomplished some pretty amazing things. I forgive them everything. For now. (sorry for the threadshit but I just had to say it.) ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoderk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cryptoderk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoderk)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/92 "2007-05-28T21:33:41Z")
How odd. My understanding is this sort of thing is practically unheard of in the UK - those who do cheat seemed to do it more as a game, sometimes putting far more effort into cheating than doing the work in the first place. Is there something in the American system that encourages this? I’m certain no one here, except perhaps in the former polys, gets so much choice about courses to do as you seem to (reading between the lines). ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/93 "2007-05-28T23:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=sinjin] I have only two anecdotes about Communications majors; 1. The student who gave us the tour of Boston College when my son was considering going there for degrees in math and classical languages. As we toured around campus she pointed to a large building and said “That’s our library. I’ve been told there are lots of books there, but I can’t say so for sure because I’ve never been inside.” She was graduating at the end of the semester. :eek: [/quote] Actually this isn’t so surprising, or horrifying. As I’ve learned since being enrolled myself, university libraries now typically provide the campus community with free, full-text access to a dizzying array of online resources, which people normally would have to pay for. Students can access this from anywhere via the Internet, so they don’t need to be even on campus, let alone in the actual library. I remarked here recently that I had been on campus at UCLA a couple of weeks ago, and the libraries were deserted. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/94 "2007-05-28T23:39:28Z")
[QUOTE=Cryptoderk] How odd. My understanding is this sort of thing is practically unheard of in the UK - those who do cheat seemed to do it more as a game, sometimes putting far more effort into cheating than doing the work in the first place. Is there something in the American system that encourages this? I’m certain no one here, except perhaps in the former polys, gets so much choice about courses to do as you seem to (reading between the lines). [/QUOTE] Are you referring to plagiarism or to something else? General reply: Plagiarism is rampant, from what I’ve seen, in colleges and universities here, not to mention K-12. Mostly I see it coming from students who never should have been in a particular course in the first place; they begin cheating out of desperation, usually. Others are just plain lazy. There are other kinds of fraud, of course. My own college busted a ring of international students who were forging early registration papers. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoderk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cryptoderk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoderk)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/95 "2007-05-28T23:42:15Z")
[QUOTE=vivalostwages] Are you referring to plagiarism or to something else? General reply: Plagiarism is rampant, from what I’ve seen, in colleges and universities here, not to mention K-12. Mostly I see it coming from students who never should have been in a particular course in the first place; they begin cheating out of desperation, usually. Others are just plain lazy. There are other kinds of fraud, of course. My own college busted a ring of international students who were forging early registration papers. [/QUOTE] Plagarism. There’s pleny of _fraud_ here of course, there was a very humerous gentleman that enrolled on about five courses at the London Met for the loans… no one noticed anything amiss, despite him being about 5 foot 4 and 20 stone! ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/96 "2007-05-28T23:53:39Z")
Ah. Well, the plagiarism almost always results from students copying and pasting entire essays from websites, or bits and pieces of information from different sites, putting them together in a cobbled essay and passing it off as if it were their own work. It just makes us wonder if they think their professors are incredibly stupid or are using a different Internet… ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/97 "2007-05-29T00:25:06Z")
[QUOTE=vivalostwages] It just makes us wonder if they think their professors are incredibly stupid or are using a different Internet… [/QUOTE] Silly **viva** , professors don’t use the internet. They’re all too _old_! ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/98 "2007-05-29T01:35:13Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Actually this isn’t so surprising, or horrifying. As I’ve learned since being enrolled myself, university libraries now typically provide the campus community with free, full-text access to a dizzying array of online resources, which people normally would have to pay for. Students can access this from anywhere via the Internet, so they don’t need to be even on campus, let alone in the actual library. I remarked here recently that I had been on campus at UCLA a couple of weeks ago, and the libraries were deserted. [/QUOTE] Just to clarify, the campus tour I was talking about took place 12 years ago, online resources were not that wide-spread way back then. And no, I’m not that old, I was a child myself when son #1 was born. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. 🆒 BTW I have no problems with my students using online resouces for research. I encourage it. However, I did have a senior student this past semester who couldn’t find a single refereed journal article on-line or in the library itself after she did “extensive and time-consuming searching”. She had two months to do this assignment. Her final paper also referenced Wikipedia 18 times in 3 double spaced pages even though I clearly stated in the assignment that Wikipedia was not an acceptable reference. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/99 "2007-05-29T01:43:39Z")
[QUOTE=Cryptoderk] Plagarism. There’s pleny of _fraud_ here of course, there was a very humerous gentleman that enrolled on about five courses at the London Met for the loans… no one noticed anything amiss, despite him being about 5 foot 4 and 20 stone! [/QUOTE] I’m sure there’s a joke in here somewhere… What’s the London Met, and why couldn’t a fairly short guy be enrolled there? And how many pounds is 20 stone? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971/100 "2007-05-29T02:07:58Z")
[QUOTE=SpazCat] Silly **viva** , professors don’t use the internet. They’re all too _old_! [/QUOTE] **[crotchety old coot voice**]Yeah, and back in my day, we didn’t have telephone registration! Or parking lots! Or whiteboards! We had to stand in line! We had to walk miles in the snow to college! We had to use slates and chalk and then spit on them and wipe it off because we couldn’t afford erasers![**crotchety old coot voice**] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-come-rant-its-that-time-of-year/401971.md?page=6)