# Educators: I got some good news about my daughter... and I'm having trouble believing it. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 19, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095 "2014-03-19T17:27:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/41 "2014-03-20T15:31:56Z")
I’m not saying skills are related to reading for pleasure, my point is that her skill level doesn’t (IMHO) correlate with her _effort_\*. If she read for “work” or “pleasure” 2+ hours a day, I wouldn’t have started this thread. \*Again, compared to my experience at the same age. Hence, the thread topic. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/42 "2014-03-20T17:38:19Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > The sad thing to me is that the average 16 year old can’t make change, do long division, or understand a 3-4-5 right triangle or the usefulness of simple algebra as in V over I, R in a triangle. Again? The average 16 year old doesn’t need to “make change” because the register does that. (just like the average adult) The average 16 year old uses a calculator to do division. (just like the average adult) The average 16 year old can surely pick up a 3-4-5 triangle, but they may not take that knowledge into adulthood. (just like the average adult) The average 16 year old doesn’t take Physics and likely won’t get to know the VIR triangle. (just like the average adult) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/43 "2014-03-20T18:40:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m not saying skills are related to reading for pleasure, my point is that her skill level doesn’t (IMHO) correlate with her _effort_\*. If she read for “work” or “pleasure” 2+ hours a day, I wouldn’t have started this thread. > > \*Again, compared to my experience at the same age. Hence, the thread topic. A lot in life isn’t highly correlated to effort. My son just made the High School baseball team. 30 guys tried out, 15 made the team. We’ve been playing with and against these kids since t-ball, I know a lot of them, I know their parents. If effort and hard work were all that it took, Mark would be a better pitcher than my son - but he isn’t (he did make the team) and Luke would have made the team. My son has played for years, but only ever played park and rec ball in the summer - some of the boys cut played three seasons (in Minnesota you get Spring, Summer and Fall - there is no Winter ball like there is in the South) and went off to baseball camp. Now, granted, MORE of the kids who had invested time, money and effort into baseball made the team than the kids who played park and rec. But there are kids with raw talent. Your daughter has sufficient raw talent in reading to read at a 12th grade level in 6th grade. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/44 "2014-03-20T19:47:02Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > - The Fleisch-Kincaid scale is a standard part of Microsoft Word. You can actually measure the readability of anything you type using it. It can be a lot of fun. It’s also a huge time-waster… I did not know this. I just enabled it on my Word for Mac, and ran one of my professors’ messages through it. Grade 8 level… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/45 "2014-03-20T20:13:03Z")
I think I’ve mentioned this before in similar threads, but my youngest kid seemingly learned to read magically. While I painstakingly read to the older ones and went through their reading exercises every day, by the time the last kid was born there just wasn’t the time available. No idea what happened, but he was reading competently by kindergarten which threw me for a sixer. Then one day at age 5 he was looking over my shoulder as I was completing a university assignment, and he read, without any hesitation, two full paragraphs from my text. Words like _sociological_, _experiment_, and \*discourse \* didn’t slow him down at all. Now you’d think he was a voracious reader of course…but no. Not once during his childhood and later teenage years did I see him pick up a book. He had zero interest in reading for pleasure and only read school texts begrudgingly (mostly cribbing from friends’ assignments to get the gist of the story). Some kids are just born with language skills I think. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/46 "2014-03-20T20:28:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Sophia does like some books - she tackled Tolkien and Rowling with particular gusto (even reading The Simarillion). If she was able to read and enjoy _The Silmarillion_, then yes, her reading level probably is comparable to or higher than a twelfth grader’s. I love that book, but easy it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/47 "2014-03-20T20:55:39Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > I think you may be over estimating the abilities of a twelfth grader. This is important to note. Sophia obtained a score in reading on this test that was the same as the average score obtained by a student in the 12th grade, fourth month of school. This is does not mean she is capable of reading at 12 grade level. There is a great deal of variability of skill among students at the 12th grade level. Grade equivalent scores at the 10th grade may still be considered “average” for this group, due to the range of skills represented. This score still says good things about her reading ability for sure, but percentiles or standard scores will tell you much more about her relative ranking in reading compared to her same-age peers. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/48 "2014-03-20T21:07:46Z")
Thanks, Kelby. Because I’m that sort of person, [here are her Iowa Test scores](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B956CzjkwM9vS0hzMVpra0N6bDg/edit?usp=sharing) for the past 5 years. Green shows an increase from the previous year, red shows a decrease. I should do some better color-coding to show the _degree_ of change, but that’s for another day. 2nd grade wasn’t all that great because: New School, New City, New Friends. 4th grade there’s a fair amount of red, but part of that is that she did so well on the 3rd grade test (and my bad color-coding.) The chart on page 3 shows her in relation to the NPR and her school (HSCS). She has never scored less than a 91 overall percentile in the Language Arts, scoring a 99 on some subjects. So… here’s what I learned: 1. “12th grade” equivalent isn’t all that, though it is a good sign for her development. 2. I was wrong in assuming one needed “practice” at reading to good enough to score a 12.whatever GE (I still think that there is no way in hell Sophia is as ‘good’ a reader as I was at that age, but whatever.) 3. Regardless, y’all think she’s doing well. (I knew that from the beginning, but it’s still nice to hear!) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/49 "2014-03-20T21:13:32Z")
You know, looking back at those language skill numbers, I now wonder why this was even a question for me… ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/50 "2014-03-20T21:22:10Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Thanks, Kelby. > > Because I’m that sort of person, [here are her Iowa Test scores](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B956CzjkwM9vS0hzMVpra0N6bDg/edit?usp=sharing) for the past 5 years. Green shows an increase from the previous year, red shows a decrease. I should do some better color-coding to show the _degree_ of change, but that’s for another day. > > 2nd grade wasn’t all that great because: New School, New City, New Friends. 4th grade there’s a fair amount of red, but part of that is that she did so well on the 3rd grade test (and my bad color-coding.) > > The chart on page 3 shows her in relation to the NPR and her school (HSCS). She has never scored less than a 91 overall percentile in the Language Arts, scoring a 99 on some subjects. > > So… here’s what I learned: > > 1. “12th grade” equivalent isn’t all that, though it is a good sign for her development. > > 2. I was wrong in assuming one needed “practice” at reading to good enough to score a 12.whatever GE (I still think that there is no way in hell Sophia is as ‘good’ a reader as I was at that age, but whatever.) > > 3. Regardless, y’all think she’s doing well. (I knew that from the beginning, but it’s still nice to hear!) Group achievements tests like the ITBS can be very helpful in tracking a child’s learning over time. Individual scores may not always be accurate (e.g., bad test day), but long-term trends are pretty valid. Looking at Sophia’s fifth grade scores, she is performing in the upper quartile in all basic skill areas. Statistically speaking, her reading, math, science, and social studies skills would be considered High/Above average, while her language skills fall into the Very Superior range at this time. Bright kid! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/51 "2014-03-20T23:46:13Z")
Now that I’m 45, reading at the level of a 49-year-old just isn’t that big of a deal anymore. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/52 "2014-03-21T02:38:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Now that I’m 45, reading at the level of a 49-year-old just isn’t that big of a deal anymore. Hah! ---
**Author:** ![wellanuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@wellanuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wellanuff)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095/53 "2014-03-21T03:24:23Z")
Your daughter is to be commended for applying herself at school, and you and your wife are to be commended for your active involvement and interest in her education. I am going to guess, though, that of all of the things that you shared about your daughter, the ones that will play the most important role in her future success and happiness will be that she is “well-adjusted, well-liked, moral, and has no problem engaging anybody in conversation.” While her scores in general are nice to have as an indicator of “yes, she is a reasonably intelligent kid,” the specific minutiae of percentiles and grade equivalents and consecutive weeks of perfect spelling tests do not really matter beyond a certain point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/educators-i-got-some-good-news-about-my-daughter-and-im-having-trouble-believing-it/684095.md?page=2)