# Edward Gallagher's Defenders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319 "2019-05-21T23:01:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/1 "2019-05-21T23:01:50Z")
So I recently ate a warning for saying that certain folks who defended Edward Gallagher are “deserving of harm”. To quote **Bone** : > [@Trump planning to pardon accused US war criminals](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-planning-to-pardon-accused-us-war-criminals/834169/47): > > This isn’t even close to the line. In my defense: neither is _anything about this situation_. So you’ll have to excuse me if I feel like the people making bullshit, disgusting, dishonest excuses for the racist serial murderer and the president pardoning him deserve slightly less than kind treatment. Fucking hell, I’m trying to imagine hearing this news and not being outraged. I’m trying to imagine the kind of headspace that would lead one to defend this person, or this decision. Every time I put myself in that headspace, it inevitably leads to one of two thoughts: 1. “Gallagher? That was that dude who got stuck on an island for 3 seasons, right?” (I’m just assuming this is where **D’Anconia** is at, although if the sniveling little shit would like to correct me, by all means, fam, knock yourself out.) or 1. “Wow, I’m just straight-up kind of a nazi”. And you know what they say about what qualifies as a “good” nazi. I mean, think it through. Really think it through. What does pardoning this guy actually achieve? If you’re not his immediate family, in which case, fine, you have _some_ excuse (although last I checked even the family of serial killers usually come to reality at some point), what possible purpose does this serve? What message does it send? Maybe it’s about how murdering the right kind of people is okay. That’s fucking disgusting, and also didn’t we recently have Trump saying [we should shoot immigrants](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj2jjX2sOIU)? Maybe it’s about how Iraqis don’t have rights. Again: fucking disgusting, a racist blot on humanity, the kind of person we collectively decided we needed to put down even _before_ we found the death camps. Maybe it’s about how the army is above scrutiny and doesn’t deserve punishment for even the most gross misconduct. Well shit, that _is_ a convenient memo to pass on… _ **to the fucking Schutzstaffel** _! Is it against the rules to state that Nazis are deserving of harm? Because “Nazis are deserving of harm” is basically the guiding rule behind every piece of WWII media written since the 40s, the main reason Inglorious Basterds is framed as a movie about heroic insurgents and not psychopathic serial murderers, the main reason WWII shooters are so morally uncomplicated, extremely good advice for literally anyone, et cetera. Killing Nazis isn’t just “not a bad thing”, it’s so morally uncomplicated that we accept it writ large as a baseline for our media, to the point where the person trying to humanize and sympathize with the nazis comes off looking fucking suspect as hell! And this decision is really fucking hard to defend without being a nazi. So fuck Edward Gallagher. Fuck anyone who would defend Edward Gallagher. Fuck anyone who would defend the asshole pardoning Edward Gallagher. America is sliding towards fascism. These people are helping it on its merry way. I have no patience for them, and I refuse to acknowledge their basic humanity until they are willing to acknowledge the basic humanity of his countless innocent victims. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/2 "2019-05-21T23:24:50Z")
[Moderating] To forestall any reports about this being a complaint about moderation that’s not in ATMB, I’m viewing the thread as more of a pitting of people who support pardoning Gallagher, and will leave it open for that purpose. If it turns into a discussion of the appropriateness of the warning (from either direction) or attacks against the moderation staff for doing their jobs, I’ll close the thread. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/3 "2019-05-21T23:26:06Z")
Oh let me be clear, I had that one coming. Besides, it’s just the one guy from the Federalist I have beef with; the rest of the Federalist staff are just garden-variety awful, not “apologists for psychopathic racist serial killer war criminals” awful. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/4 "2019-05-21T23:49:08Z")
I read this article on Navy Times, which I don’t expect to be biased against SEALs: > **[What motivated fellow SEALs to dime out Eddie Gallagher?](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/04/22/what-motivated-fellow-seals-to-dime-out-eddie-gallagher/)** > > The fog of war swirls through the reams of internal files provided to Navy Times. Based on that, he seems like he at least needs to go to trial. Pardoning him before that process seems extremely wrong. I’m under-exaggerating that a bit. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/5 "2019-05-22T00:24:22Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I read this article on Navy Times, which I don’t expect to be biased against SEALs: > [What motivated fellow SEALs to dime out Eddie Gallagher?](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/04/22/what-motivated-fellow-seals-to-dime-out-eddie-gallagher/) > > Based on that, he seems like he at least needs to go to trial. Pardoning him before that process seems extremely wrong. I’m under-exaggerating that a bit. Assuming that the reporting to date has been largely accurate, it’s beyond question that he needs to go to trial and needs to spend a lot of quality time in prison. It’s not even controvertible. It’s worth noting that Trump has apparently been lobbied by an ultra-right wing veteran who now regularly reports for Fox News. What this episode represents is the ultimate nightmare for American democracy: politicization of the military. Pitting the passions of soldiers against each other, encouraging psychos like this guy to rebel against the more rational superior leadership and the chain of command. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/6 "2019-05-22T01:33:55Z")
There are a couple of Trump supporters left on this board. Have any of them commented on this pardon? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/7 "2019-05-22T01:40:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Assuming that the reporting to date has been largely accurate, it’s beyond question that he needs to go to trial and needs to spend a lot of quality time in prison. It’s not even controvertible. > > It’s worth noting that Trump has apparently been lobbied by an ultra-right wing veteran who now regularly reports for Fox News. What this episode represents is the ultimate nightmare for American democracy: politicization of the military. Pitting the passions of soldiers against each other, encouraging psychos like this guy to rebel against the more rational superior leadership and the chain of command. Trump has already pardoned one war criminal. This disgrace’s [del]turn[/del] reward will be soon, especially if (a) the trial concludes before the 2020 election, and/or (b) Trump sees he will not be getting re-elected without doing “something grand for the troops”. Also, not even Nazis are deserving of harm for simply being Nazis. They are deserving of ridicule and rejection from decent society. If they commit crimes, then they are deserving of trial and, if convicted, incarceration. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/8 "2019-05-22T01:46:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Trump has already pardoned one war criminal. This disgrace’s [del]turn[/del] reward will be soon, especially if (a) the trial concludes before the 2020 election, and/or (b) Trump sees he will not be getting re-elected without doing “something grand for the troops”. > … It’s only anecdotal evidence, but the reaction I’m seeing from people who serve or have served, is that this is pretty much the _opposite_ of something “for the troops.” (Which I realize you know.) Seriously, this may have started out for Trump as one of his patented “distract from current bad news for me” maneuvers—but I’m wondering if it has the potential to lose him military and veteran votes that he previously had received. Because most people serving realize how bad this kind of thing—the blatant encouragement of violent criminal acts by service members—could be for them. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/9 "2019-05-22T01:58:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s only anecdotal evidence, but the reaction I’m seeing from people who serve or have served, is that this is pretty much the _opposite_ of something “for the troops.” (Which I realize you know.) > > Seriously, this may have started out for Trump as one of his patented “distract from current bad news for me” maneuvers—but I’m wondering if it has the potential to lose him military and veteran votes that he previously had received. Because most people serving realize how bad this kind of thing—the blatant encouragement of violent criminal acts by service members—could be for them. I doubt it changes anything. It’s not their problem. Their problem will be when the economy collapses, whenever it finally happens. Then they’ll get angry. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/10 "2019-05-22T02:09:31Z")
Some of them might get angry at both things. (I’ve seen a lot of passion about this from veterans I know personally.) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/11 "2019-05-22T02:33:19Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s only anecdotal evidence, but the reaction I’m seeing from people who serve or have served, is that this is pretty much the _opposite_ of something “for the troops.” (Which I realize you know.) > > Seriously, this may have started out for Trump as one of his patented “distract from current bad news for me” maneuvers—but I’m wondering if it has the potential to lose him military and veteran votes that he previously had received. Because most people serving realize how bad this kind of thing—the blatant encouragement of violent criminal acts by service members—could be for them. Also, anecdotal: My experience is that the vast majority of people I personally know who serve or have served see this that way. However, far too many people on online fora for the military and veterans are quite vocal in supporting both of these war criminals and calling for more war crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/12 "2019-05-22T10:50:06Z")
Here’s a great NewRepublic article on the subject: “[Who Actually Wants War Criminals Pardoned](https://newrepublic.com/article/153948/actually-wants-war-criminals-pardoned)?” > [@](#): > > There is no natural constituency demanding the exoneration of a motley series of heavily armed white men who killed or desecrated the bodies of foreigners overseas in the name of the United States. What these cases have in common is that they have become hobby-horses for a sclerotic part of the conservative media-industrial complex. > > […] > > At least Hunter is consistent: Back in 2012, he also insisted that those Marines who urinated on Afghan corpses were “sons of America” who should not face criminal consequences for their actions. That case quickly became a cause célébre for arch-rightists looking to distance themselves from more staid conservative circles. “Can someone explain to me if there’s supposed to be a scandal that someone pees on the corpse of a Taliban fighter? Someone who, as part of an organization, murdered over 3,000 Americans? I’d drop trou and do it too,” said a then-obscure radio host from St. Louis who had never served in uniform. “That’s me though. I want a million cool points for these guys. Is that harsh to say? Come on people, this is a war. What do you think this is?” The radio host was Dana Loesch, now the paid spokeswoman for the National Rifle Association. When called on her comments, she argued that the “Left is attacking me so they can avoid calling this Obama’s Abu Ghraib.” She was supported by the likes of Islamophobic blogger Pamela Geller, who could barely contain her glee at the desecration. “I love these Marines,” she wrote. “Perhaps this is the infidel interpretation of the Islamic ritual of washing and preparing the body for burial.” > > This, in a nutshell, is the war crimes lobby as it now exists, a metastasizing network of amateurish, enraged gawkers, gorging themselves on Fox News emissions, and who feel empowered to speak for the troops, the war, and the whole darn population of “real” United States citizens. “To the people in middle America, who respect the troops and the tough calls they make, they’re going to love this. These are the good guys,” said Fox and Friends cohost, professional Republican veteran, and onetime Trump cabinet hopeful Pete Hegseth on Sunday. “These are the war fighters. And making a move like this by Memorial Day would be—I would be—wow, amazing.” These people are fucking psychopaths, to a one. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/13 "2019-05-22T11:36:07Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Here’s a great NewRepublic article on the subject: “[Who Actually Wants War Criminals Pardoned](https://newrepublic.com/article/153948/actually-wants-war-criminals-pardoned)?” > > These people are fucking psychopaths, to a one. It’s truly sickening, a while I don’t toss Nazi comparisons around lightly, there’s a mentality that’s eerily reminiscent of Nazis. A fervent ethno-nationalist mentality that dehumanizes ‘others’ and demonizes and casts as traitors anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their worldview. Trumpism is a growing cancer in our society. This psychopath’s view doesn’t seem consistent with the vast majority of servicemen/women I’ve met over the years, but they are definitely some in uniform with some real issues and it’s scary to think a) they’re still in uniform, and b) they’ll eventually reintegrate into society, and probably not so smoothly. And never mind the fact that this guy went postal on the battlefield. This guy is now going to be reintroduced into civilian society. Would any of us want to be the guy who accidentally rear ends his car at a stop light? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/14 "2019-05-22T11:36:56Z")
Shrug. Trump is the leader of a white nationalist movement, pardoning someone who murders dark skinned people is what his base wants. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/15 "2019-05-22T11:42:37Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Shrug. Trump is the leader of a white nationalist movement, pardoning someone who murders dark skinned people is what his base wants. See, I don’t really see Trump as a voluntary leader of a white nationalist movement. I don’t think Trump really sees himself as a true racist. Sure, he’s the landlord who won’t rent apartments to blacks and brown people - he’s racist in that sense. But I don’t think he’s cross burning racist. I don’t think he sees himself as the leader of that movement. But he seeks adulation, and he knows that in light of his mounting political and legal problems, he needs to be loved by and useful to somebody, and I think this is why he allies himself with extremists, and will only continue to do so. The religious extremists, the racists, the kleptocrats…they all need Trump’s access to the levers of power, and Trump needs them to stay in power, and more importantly, to stay out of jail. They will use each other for their own mutual benefit and to destroy their enemies using any means necessary. It’s a marriage made in hell. I worry that Trump could begin using his pardon powers to create his own rag-tag band of pro-Trump warriors, with offers of full pardons for anything they volunteer to do. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/16 "2019-05-22T13:34:45Z")
Yeah, Trump himself is too stupid to have a philosophy, even white nationalism. He’s a narcissist and nothing more with absolutely no moral compass. But his base are white nationalists and he panders to them, so if the want the murderer of dark people killed, fine with him. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/17 "2019-05-22T13:41:56Z")
I meant to say murderer of dark people pardoned, fine with him. It’s only a matter of time before he’s calling him a hero. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/18 "2019-05-22T15:51:04Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > But I don’t think he’s cross burning racist. I don’t think he sees himself as the leader of that movement. He’s the guy who kept taking out ads that the Central Park 5 should be executed, even after they were exonerated. He’s been a leader of this movement for a long time, whether he sees himself that way or not. Now he’s pretty blatantly the leader. He’s got the biggest megaphone, and he validates the whole range of racist beliefs of the proverbial Basket of Deplorables. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/19 "2019-05-22T16:53:58Z")
The charges are filed… but the case has not yet been heard / tried, correct? I realize that this may be an unpopular opinion, but shouldn’t we let this play out within the due process system which has been allocated to it first? From there, lets see what Trump will do if anything. Talking about pardons or penalties before the trial is even over just seems wrong under our Constitutional form of government. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/20 "2019-05-22T17:53:50Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > I realize that this may be an unpopular opinion… I should hope it isn’t. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319.md?page=2)