# Edward Gallagher's Defenders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319 "2019-05-21T23:01:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/21 "2019-05-22T17:55:18Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > The charges are filed… but the case has not yet been heard / tried, correct? > > I realize that this may be an unpopular opinion, but shouldn’t we let this play out within the due process system which has been allocated to it first? From there, lets see what Trump will do if anything. > Talking about pardons or penalties before the trial is even over just seems wrong under our Constitutional form of government. And I think you’ve hit upon the objection many have. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/22 "2019-05-22T18:03:01Z")
I know a Navy insider - someone highly plugged into the Naval Special Warfare community, and pretty well respected across the board by them - who is behind Gallagher 100% and swears up and down that he’s being railroaded by junior members of his platoon who had personal grievances with him unrelated to the crimes he’s being accused of. And this guy isn’t a conservative partisan, he is pretty moderate politically. He says the evidence against Gallagher wouldn’t hold up in court. But that’s what courts are for, aren’t they? Just giving him a pardon before there’s even a trial seems like an attempt to sidestep justice. Being exonerated by a court would clear his name more legitimately than being pardoned by a president. Especially THIS president. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/23 "2019-05-22T19:21:35Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I know a Navy insider - someone highly plugged into the Naval Special Warfare community, and pretty well respected across the board by them - who is behind Gallagher 100% and swears up and down that he’s being railroaded by junior members of his platoon who had personal grievances with him unrelated to the crimes he’s being accused of. And this guy isn’t a conservative partisan, he is pretty moderate politically. > > He says the evidence against Gallagher wouldn’t hold up in court. > > But that’s what courts are for, aren’t they? Just giving him a pardon before there’s even a trial seems like an attempt to sidestep justice. Being exonerated by a court would clear his name more legitimately than being pardoned by a president. Especially THIS president. Those have to be some ginormous “personal grievances” for these junior members to attempt to frame Gallagher for the egregious offense he is accused of. We are talking **way** beyond “Gallagher stole the last pudding cup” type stuff. As I understand it, under the UCMJ accusing a senior officer of a court-martial offense without good cause is itself actionable. I suppose it’s _possible_ all these guys are trying to railroad Gallagher and never mind the threat of a court-martial if it’s found that they are BSing, but I wouldn’t make bank on it. Let’s have the process play out. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/24 "2019-05-22T19:29:40Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > See, I don’t really see Trump as a voluntary leader of a white nationalist movement. I don’t think Trump really sees himself as a true racist. Sure, he’s the landlord who won’t rent apartments to blacks and brown people - he’s racist in that sense. But I don’t think he’s cross burning racist. I don’t think he sees himself as the leader of that movement. > > But he seeks adulation, and he knows that in light of his mounting political and legal problems, he needs to be loved by and useful to somebody, and I think this is why he allies himself with extremists, and will only continue to do so. I have a different take. I think that the vast majority of racists would not think of themselves as subscribing to a vile agenda. They just think that they are using common sense. The issue is that what they see as common sense, clear-minded people recognize as hatred. For example, look back at supporters of segregation. I think a good chunk of segregationists would say that they have anything against black people, it’s just that “it’s common sense” to have black people and white people in different schools because things are just better that way, and of course they have nothing against black people themselves. Nothing. No way. Not possible. I think that is the exact same spirit as Trump’s pervasive racism. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/25 "2019-05-22T20:54:21Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > He’s the guy who kept taking out ads that the Central Park 5 should be executed, even after they were exonerated. He’s been a leader of this movement for a long time, whether he sees himself that way or not. > > Now he’s pretty blatantly the leader. He’s got the biggest megaphone, and he validates the whole range of racist beliefs of the proverbial Basket of Deplorables. I’m not saying he’s not racist - I think he is. I just tend to think he’s not ideologically so. Not that the absence of a racist ideology minimizes the impact of his racism. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/26 "2019-05-22T20:57:07Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > He says the evidence against Gallagher wouldn’t hold up in court. That would be interesting because the reports I’ve read have indicated he basically boasted about killing people in cold blood. That being said, reports aren’t courtroom evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/27 "2019-05-22T22:08:51Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Also, anecdotal: My experience is that the vast majority of people I personally know who serve or have served see this that way. However, far too many people on online fora for the military and veterans are quite vocal in supporting both of these war criminals and calling for more war crimes. I wonder how many of those fora require positive ID in order to post. (I’m saying that some posts might be from people who are only _pretending_ to be military or veterans, at least of the U.S. military.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/28 "2019-05-22T22:12:25Z")
Trump is a false demagogue, by which I mean "someone who searches about for a mob and somehow manages to get himself in front of it, not knowing anything about its actual philosophy but repeating its slogans as best he can and terrified that if, exposed out in front, he deviates too far to the left or right, the mob will pass him by, and that if he slows down even a little, it will run him over, and that if he outpaces it, he will end up alone. His entire existence depends on closely following while pretending to lead a conga line of people he despises, trying to impress another group which despises him. The military, like any profession, has admitted its share of misfits, dimwits, criminals and psychopaths. To decline to expel and punish them demeans the service of everyone else. None of these people, even if pardoned, will ever be reinstated or gain, unless there’s a rule I don’t know about, even a general discharge from their service. Then let’s start punishing the military rapists. There ain’t room in the federal court system for all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/29 "2019-05-22T22:24:42Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Those have to be some ginormous “personal grievances” for these junior members to attempt to frame Gallagher for the egregious offense he is accused of. We are talking **way** beyond “Gallagher stole the last pudding cup” type stuff. As best as I can understand the situation: between disputes over rules of engagement, disputes between officers and enlisted, and disputes over the judgment of men who have deployed less vs those who have deployed more, it’s possible for guys to make enemies within the context of a team of special operators. So yeah, we’re talking about potentially very serious grievances. This is an excerpt from a Navy Times article about the case: > [@](#): > > But piecing together all the interviews in mid-2018 and a round of re-interviews in October of the SEALs reveals multiple, sometimes competing, reasons for bringing Gallagher’s alleged actions to the attention of his superiors and, later, law enforcement. > > Some SEALs wanted to derail Gallagher’s advancement to senior chief. > > Others were angry that he had been recommended for a post-tour combat valor award — the Silver Star — an honor they thought he didn’t deserve. > > Others were concerned that he was tactically incompetent and temperamentally unfit to lead special operators. They wanted him fired from a schoolhouse billet that taught junior SEALs battlefield operations. > > To Gallagher’s legal team, there’s a problem with these alleged motives. > > At first, they say, the anti-Gallagher campaign by the alleged whistleblowers appeared to succeed. Gallagher’s SEAL Team 7 superiors in California junked the Silver Star application and he wasn’t going to make senior chief before his planned retirement after 20 years of service. > > If many of the allegations of the witnesses were untrue or embellished to depose Gallagher, they still worked — until the claims hurdled SEAL Team 7 and reached Naval Special Warfare Group 1. > > “And then, all of a sudden, they hit a nerve,” said Timothy Parlatore, Gallagher’s lead civilian counsel. “The problem is, once they get what they wanted, the process doesn’t stop. It escalates and Warpinski is now on the case." > > Joseph Warpinski is the lead NCIS special agent assigned to the Gallagher probe. > > “The train has left the station and now they can’t get off the rails. Now, they’re stuck," said Parlatore, who suspects some accusers lied to investigators. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/30 "2019-07-02T22:29:43Z")
Bumping because [Gallagher has been found not guilty.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/politics/eddie-gallagher-navy-seal-trial-verdict/index.html) My friend who is retired from the Navy and spent nearly 30 years in Naval SpecWar including SEAL team, and knows everything and everyone there is to know about that community, was absolutely positive that Gallagher would not be convicted, and he was right. He swears up and down that this whole thing was the result of intra-platoon rivalry and grudges, and that it was overhyped by both the media and the Navy’s legal system. On Donald Trump’s role in this story…no comment. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/31 "2019-07-02T23:09:23Z")
Hey, a [little perjury](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/26/politics/eddie-gallagher-navy-seal-murder-trial-witness-perjury/index.html) goes a long way. In this fucked up version of America, trash like Gallagher get medals. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/32 "2019-07-03T01:10:36Z")
Isn’t this the case where Trump complained about the military prosecution “going after” a “war hero”? No doubt, there are many who are celebrating this court-martial’s result and, if they were to be honest, they would likely see that their reason for celebrating it is because of the victim’s religion. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/33 "2019-07-03T14:36:01Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Bumping because [Gallagher has been found not guilty.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/politics/eddie-gallagher-navy-seal-trial-verdict/index.html) My friend who is retired from the Navy and spent nearly 30 years in Naval SpecWar including SEAL team, and knows everything and everyone there is to know about that community, was absolutely positive that Gallagher would not be convicted, and he was right. He swears up and down that this whole thing was the result of intra-platoon rivalry and grudges, and that it was overhyped by both the media and the Navy’s legal system. > > On Donald Trump’s role in this story…no comment. Gallagher was acquitted because one of the prosecution witnesses changed his story at trial and testified that _he_ murdered the victim (though he testified that Gallagher had previously stabbed him). Not sure how your friend could have predicted _that._ ETA: Just realized the testimony is discussed in **Blank Slate** ’s link. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/34 "2019-07-03T16:11:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Gallagher was acquitted because one of the prosecution witnesses changed his story at trial and testified that _he_ murdered the victim (though he testified that Gallagher had previously stabbed him). Not sure how your friend could have predicted _that._ > > ETA: Just realized the testimony is discussed in **Blank Slate** ’s link. He’s still guilty of the ‘posing with a body’, which is gross but I didn’t know was illegal. Hopefully he at least gets a DD. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/35 "2019-07-03T17:43:47Z")
Wonder when BPC will come back and apologise for his slurs against Gallagher? _This_ is why we sgouldn’t consider people guilty before conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/36 "2019-07-03T18:11:48Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > He’s still guilty of the ‘posing with a body’, which is gross but I didn’t know was illegal. > > Hopefully he at least gets a DD. I heard on NPR that posing with a body was not a crime that could get you a DD. They did go on to note that he could still get demoted if he spends time in prison, and that he is running up on the end of his career, so it could impact his retirement payout. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/37 "2019-07-03T19:04:33Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Hopefully he at least gets a DD. Don’t hold your breath. I’d be wildly surprised if he did. A discharge can only be characterized as dishonorable as a **punishment** by a general court martial. It’s generally only used for convictions of the most serious crimes like murder and rape. Gallagher did go through a general court martial. He was acquitted of the serious charges where we might reasonably expect a dishonorable discharge is possible. Gallagher wasn’t even convicted for charges less than murder for the allegations of stabbing. Courts martial don’t tend to punish people for stuff the prosecution couldn’t prove. That’s what giving him a Dishonorable Discharge would effectively - punishing him for something he wasn’t convicted of. A [Bad Conduct Discharge](https://www.gijobs.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-other-than-honorable-discharge/) is possible and carries most of the same effects. The less serious, but still bad, Other Than Honorable characterization is a real possibility given the charge he was actually convicted of IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/38 "2019-07-03T21:39:53Z")
OTH is not part of a sentence from a court-martial. It is determined using the character of service matrix in the DOD separation instruction. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319/39 "2019-07-07T00:23:02Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > OTH is not part of a sentence from a court-martial. It is determined using the character of service matrix in the DOD separation instruction. Thanks I wasn’t clear enough about that being the separate admin process unlike the other two are part of sentencing. Which is why I came back, sentencing. [Yesterday](https://taskandpurpose.com/gallagher-sentenced) they jury recommended reduction in rank by one, four months of confinement, and four months forfeiture of pay. The judge reduced the forfeiture to 2 months based on a pre-trial agreement, and credited him for pretrial confinement that was already longer than 4 months. No Dishonorable or Bad Conduct Discharge. It’s now in the hands of the court martial convening authority. The convening authority can choose to accept the recommendation, reduce it, or even overturn the conviction. The convening authority cannot increase the punishment or throw out the acquittals. Dishonorable and bad conduct discharges are now off the table. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edward-gallaghers-defenders/834319.md?page=1)