# Edwards vs. Cheney **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786 "2004-10-06T02:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/41 "2004-10-06T12:30:34Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Gah, you’re stupid. Don’t you know the difference between meeting someone and brushing past them at a meeting? Only your mallet-headed stubborness would insist that calling someone by name does not constitute a meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/42 "2004-10-06T13:00:19Z")
Just out of curiosity, **Lib** , how many meetings have you co-chaired with people you’ve never met, despite those co-chairs sitting right next to you? Cameras only show the tip of the reality iceberg. It’s damn near inconceivable to me that a person would sit next to me at a meeting, _co-chair_ it with me, and I wouldn’t introduce myself to them, or them to me. It is, however, conceivable that I’d go to a rally and not introduce myself to everyone else at the rally. So your analogy doesn’t work. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![BadBadger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@BadBadger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BadBadger)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/43 "2004-10-06T13:34:47Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Gah, you’re stupid Possibly, but you’re down in the polls on this one. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/44 "2004-10-06T13:39:28Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Eh. I take back all the nice things I’ve said about Edwards. I loathed him in this debate and, appallingly, found myself liking Cheney more than Edwards. Cheney came across as more thoughtful, more serious, even, bizarrely, more compassionate. Pay no attention, it is a Jedi mind trick. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/45 "2004-10-06T13:45:24Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > If the Prez dies or in some other way can’t fulfill the role, the Veep becomes Prez. Otherwise the VP is there for funerals of Heads of State that the President can’t attend. > > Most importantly, the VP is President Pro Tem (right term?) in the Senate and gets to cast any tie-breaking vote needed. > > (Oversimplified, but it’s a start) Yup, and if the VP dies, the Speaker of the House takes over. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/46 "2004-10-06T13:47:54Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Could a good presidential candidate win with an apalling deputy? And vice versa? Yes. Two words - Spiro Agnew. The horror. The horror. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/47 "2004-10-06T13:51:47Z")
For the record I’m a Kerry/Edwards supporter. There was no obvious winner in last night’s debate like there was in the presidential debates. Still, I would have to give the edge to Cheney. He just did better in the sound bites. Both men were articulate as expected, but Edwards’ comments were just so - I dunno - forgettable. He was much too abstract and required too much thought from the average viewer. You need to keep it very, veeeerrrry simple, and Edwards didn’t do that. Even though Bush got a thorough licking from Kerry in the Presidential debate, the only thing I’m hearing people discuss is two words - “global test”. My guess is that the only thing that will emerge from last night’s debate will be that claim that Cheney as Vice-President had never met Edwards before that night. “No-show” will be that Republicans talking point regarding Edwards for the weeks to come. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/48 "2004-10-06T14:08:24Z")
I saw most, but not all of the debate, and I have to say both candidates were very solid. Cheney did woosh me a bit with his ‘El Salvador’ digression, and his “I don’t know where to start” bit grew tiresome. Edwards was a strong debater, as expected. I think overall, this debate shows that the republicans have depth of field, but it won’t have any effect on Nov. 2. Friday’s debate will be much more important, especially if Bush melts down before the people. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/49 "2004-10-06T14:16:44Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > I saw most, but not all of the debate, and I have to say both candidates were very solid. Cheney did woosh me a bit with his ‘El Salvador’ digression, and his “I don’t know where to start” bit grew tiresome. Edwards was a strong debater, as expected. > > I think overall, this debate shows that the republicans have depth of field, but it won’t have any effect on Nov. 2. Friday’s debate will be much more important, especially if Bush melts down before the people. I’m hoping for spontaneous combustion. Who has the marshmallows? What will be the “key” words for the SDMB drinking game on that debate? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/50 "2004-10-06T14:21:48Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > When Cheney was given an opportunity to respond to Edwards’s remarks on gay marriage, he said he thanked Edwards for his kind comments about his family. That’s it. I thought it was a classy move. On the other hand, I thought a moment later, he may have answered that way because his answer might have put him in the dog house with his boss or with his family depending on how he answered. You missed some of this. The moderator asked two questions in a row about gay marriage. Cheney spoke for two minutes to the first question and Edwards gave his 90 second response. Then, she asked a second (unnesessary IMO) question to Edwards about gay marriage. When Cheney had a chance to respond to this he thanked Edwards for the kind words regarding his family. He had already said his piece, and correctly didn’t need to answer the second question twice. It seemed to me that Cheney saying thanks could have been interpreted as “Thanks for bringing my family into this you fucking asshole.” But, that’s just my opinion. * * * The moderator for the debate was terrible. She was way out of her depth. She screwed up a couple of questions, she got mixed up about who’s turn it was to speak. Also, she seemed to have a habit of asking Edwards questions that were a simple phrase, and asking Cheney questions that were three paragraphs long. She asks two questions about gay marriage, and never really got into health care despite Edwards begging her to. There wasn’t any real knockout punches, and no clear and decisive victor. However, Cheney handled himself better and came across as more impressive. I sincerely hope that his repeated steering of the debate to Kerry’s record will set a trend for the Bush campaign. In the first debate, Kerry’s record wasn’t brought up by either candidate a single time. They need to attack on this front. I loved the line where Edwards wouldn’t acknowledge our Iraqi allies. As soon as he said it, I knew Cheney had him. He walked right into it. It proved a point that Cheney was making just minutes before. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/51 "2004-10-06T14:28:31Z")
So VP Cheney met Senator Puppy at a prayer breakfast that John Boy probably only attended to avoid getting written up by his hometown newspaper. “Senator Gone misses Prayer Breakfast!” \ _Has anybody here…seen my Senator John? Can you tell me where he’s gone? He said he’d represent us but it seems that he told us wrong. They called his name to vote, but he was gone._ The only reason the folksy millionaire is even on the ticket is to draw support from the blue collar South that doesn’t consider windsurfing the best way to spend a Sunday afternoon. Nobody has yet refuted Cheney’s excellent points that Senator Kerry and John Boy both have a history of being on the wrong side of national defense. Kerry’s miserable record speaks for itself, as does Edwards’ (short though it may be). John Boy completed evaded the question of his qualifications for being a heartbeat away from the presidency (I’ll answer it for him – he has none). The poor dolt kept trying to talk about health care, despite the fact that the moderator never asked about it. He was conistently at least one to two questions behind the entire night. Edwards also completely sidestepped the global test issue. I don’t blame him – frankly it’s embarrassing that Franken-Kerry even said it in the first debate. However, it is very telling on how he feels about pre-emptive action and his willingness to hand over the defense of the US to the UN. He can point to his strong rhetoric during the debate that points in the other direction, but tough talk cannot wash away his dove-ish record in the Senate, or his overall attitide of borderline appeasement. It’s also interesting to note that apparently Iraqi lives mean nothing to Senator Kerry or his “My Buddy” doll veep candidate. Others will claim that Bush and Cheney are painting too rosy a picture. This simply isn’t true. They are accentuating the positive and showing their patriotic optimism, something rarely seen with the network news and it’s “If it bleeds, it leads” mindset. Kerry and Edwards call Iraq a mess and a mistake. This type of pessimism will never win the war against terror, but is instead the mindset of a loser who thinks every war is the wrong war at the wrong time…especially when Howard Dean is running away with the Democratic primary. Good luck building a coalition with these inconsistent positions. Oh wait…you won’t have to worry about building a coalition, because you’re going to lose next month. Style and substance won last night, and they were both displayed masterfully by Vice President Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/52 "2004-10-06T14:31:17Z")
I wasn’t impressed by Edwards one bit. I wanted to jump in his chair and take his place. I would have done better. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/53 "2004-10-06T14:53:17Z")
I found the debate interesting because it was good to see how they each argue, but uninteresting at the same time, because they kept repeating the same things over and over. Also, I hate that little thumb thing Edwards does. It looks stupid. The thumb thing aside, though, I thought that, despite potential untruths and distortions on both sides, the candidates in this debate were far better matched than in the Bush/Kerry debate. Yeah, Cheney appeared pretty cold and bloodless while Edwards was far more warm and engaging (despite the thumb thing). Still, the debate didn’t change who I’m going to vote for, though if Cheney’s comments on Edwards’ attendance were accurate, I’m very disappointed and have to wonder where the hell he was. Isn’t that his job to vote on legislation? I’m not sure who “won,” though. I’d like to say Edwards since I’ll be voting for the Kerry/Edwards camp; however, both argued well, and, like I said, appeared far better matched than Bush vs. Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/54 "2004-10-06T15:04:56Z")
While I can’t stand Cheney, I’d have to say that he dominated. Edwards, to me, had the same “deer in headlights” look that Bush had last week. I hate to say it, but Edwards got rocked. My wife, who is from Canada and has no real knowledge of American politics, watched both debates. She has no horse in the race, and was therefore completely objective. She judged both debates on only poise and on who seemed more believable. She felt that Bush’s performance last week was laughable. She couldn’t imagine how anyone could vote for him after watching the debate. Well, last night, she felt the same way about Edwards. She said that Cheney seemed like the stern, high school principal-type, who brushed off the silly adolescent notions of Edwards, the prankster freshman. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/55 "2004-10-06T15:09:26Z")
Okay, in the “funny yet disgusting” department, remember how Cheney referred people to [factcheck.com](http://factcheck.com)? I snickered a bit, because [factcheck.com](http://factcheck.com) as of last week was a squatter’s site: someone had bought the name but not developed it, instead linking to a bunch of random advertisements. I was laughing at how he even got his facts about factchecking wrong. Try going to [factcheck.com](http://factcheck.com) today. Apparently, George Soros just bought the address. I betcha Cheney’s taking a double-dose of his blood-pressure medication. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/56 "2004-10-06T15:24:21Z")
> [@Jackknifed Juggernaut](#): > > She felt that Bush’s performance last week was laughable. She couldn’t imagine how anyone could vote for him after watching the debate. Well, last night, she felt the same way about Edwards. I acknowledge that Cheney outdid Edwards last night, but to compare Edward’s performance to Bush’s is way, way over the top. Bush was at times at a complete loss for words; that never happened to Edwards. If anything, Edwards used too many words. Bush came across as being way over his head; Edwards simply came across as someone lacking sound bite skills. ---
**Author:** ![smartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@smartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smartini)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/57 "2004-10-06T16:00:39Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Thank you for the very thoughtful answer **Gomi Boy**. I keep trying to wrap my head around presidential elections, well the whole US election thing really. It makes little sense to me. I apologize in advance for not reading the entire thread yet but I had to stop and comment on this… Don’t feel alone **calm kiwi** … sometimes the whole thing makes little sense to us either…probably because it _actually makes little sense_ much of the time. Our electoral process has become so very bogged in “spin and spending” that sometimes it takes a tremendous amount of effort to sort out the needed information on the issues. The amount of money spent by both parties during the election could probably support a third world country and put a significant dent in the rampant HIV pandemic (I have no figures cite but suffice it to say – it is a lot of money best spent elsewhere) sand we still hear mostly “bottled spin” about “who did what” in the past in an attempt to avoid talking about the real issues facing this country. Not much bang for that buck. The VP debate was entertainment. I doubt it changed anyone’s mind about how they will cast their vote on November 2. I think both men avoided the real questions with equal finesse and got their planned points across. Poor Gwen…those bad boys just would not mind her! ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/58 "2004-10-06T18:43:01Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I loved the line where Edwards wouldn’t acknowledge our Iraqi allies. As soon as he said it, I knew Cheney had him. He walked right into it. It proved a point that Cheney was making just minutes before. That’s it - I’m starting a new thread on this. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/59 "2004-10-06T19:01:44Z")
> **[Through the looking glass: Since when does the country you INVADED count as...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279529)** > > I brought this up in this thread, but it kind of got glossed over. In the VP debates, Edwards pointed out that 90% of the “coalition” causalties and 90% of the cost in Iraq has been borne by the United States. Cheney’s response was to castigate... ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786/60 "2004-10-06T21:27:14Z")
How DID this guy win $50 million in medical malpractice lawsuits? I couldn’t take the guy seriously…he was asked very serious questions, and never answered them! Oh, and all that crap about poor old people dying because they don’t have medical care…South Florida is fullof retired people, and it is Cadillac’s biggest market. I hear the voters in NC aren’t too impressed with John (Opie from Mayberry) Edwards…if he loses in this election, will he retain his senate seat? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/edwards-vs-cheney/267786.md?page=4)