I’m 52 and raised in southern Ontario. I was well in my twenties before I realized the the well known rhyme managed to substitute tiger. By the time I moved to B.C. around 1980, I became aware how universal the change was.
Doesn’t this complete transformation of a universal English language school yard chant integral to one of the most basic and popular school yard games passed down year after year from the older kids amaze you people ? It is beyond my comprehension as to how this was accomplished.
Malthus, I will have to defer to others that eenie, meenie… refers to an originally racist poes, but Snopes says that rosie does not refer to the plague. Of course, that might not be enough, as someone could claim that even though their assumption was wrong, they were insulted, degraded and humiliated by rosie’s reference.
When I was growing up in the Northeast, we used the word “monkey”, I think (I’ll have to check with my brothers. I agree with Biggirl, who said, "Not only is it frivolous, it is also damaging. " I’ve seen real-life examples of racism. I’ve even managed to be on the receiving end of it a couple of times. To me, the incident described is not racism, and it gives more ammunition to people who are inclined to be racist.
I’m trying to be sympathetic because I know what it’s like to walk into a room and be unsure about whether anyone would let me set next to them. On the other hand, surely everyone knows that the plane can’t take off until everyone finds a seat? Even at my most thin-skinned, I can’t see being offended to the point where I’d file a lawsuit, although I might be a bit rattled. I’m for putting it down to a case of, “Worse things happen to better people” and moving on.
No, they don’t. They have to be intentional to BLAME the speaker or the speaker must have exercised poor judgment or care.
I don’t take it that’s the case here. But whenever this matter reached the top, they knew or should have, this wasn’t the kind of situation any person should be subjected to.
The fact of the matter is that companies fear being labeled “racist”. The $1M lawsuit will get headlines and SW will probably settle out of court for some large (tho much less than $1M) amount of money-- maybe a few thou. I’m sure that’s the intention of the lawyers and probably the plaintiffs, too.
I’d like to see SW stand up to these guys and take it through the courts. Pragmatically, though, it’ll probably less expensive just to settle.
Umm, it would appear that “when this matter reached the top” was when the lawsuit was filed, so what further action should they have taken, since the attendant involved (the only one using that phrase) has already retired it from her repertoire.
The plaintiff may have taken insult–but it was needless and the lawsuit is ridiculous.
Yeah, this kind of stuff cheapens the word “racist”. It would be nice to see one of the traditional Black leaders come out and denounce this sort of action. I would certainly feel a great deal of respect for anyone who did.
I grew up in Southern California in the late 50’s and early 60’s, and I mostly heard the “tiger” version. I did hear the “nigger” version a few times, from kids who learned that version from their parents, but it was not common.
I started a thread about this on the wordorigins.org message board, and Dave Wilton said, “No, the ‘nigger’ version is not the original. The counting rhyme dates to 1855. The ‘nigger’ version to 1923. And the latter first appears in Kipling’s ‘Land and Sea Tales.’”
You know, I never knew that Southwest routinely does that kind of thing–guess you can tell how often I get out of the house. If odd rhymes are routine procedure and to be expected (as opposed to singling out the women, as I thought), then I see no reason for an apology.
Why is it that when white people find out that a word or phrase or rhyme has racict meanings or connections, they assert their right to keep saying it while encouraging black people to stop being so sensitive, instead of adopting a compassionate stance and saying they wouldn’t want to hurt someone by being insensitive?
I grew up in N.J., and we said the offensive version all the time, gleefully. We never played with the black kids who lived 8 or 10 blocks away, and we chased them when we encounered them in the woods near our homes. It was racist, and we were getting the racist message of discrimination and separation re-enforced each time we said the rhyme.
White people should achknowledge the history of racism and its cultural content, if we are ever to eradicate this social disease from our society.
Slight hijack: Remember when some city official had to resign over using the term ‘niggardly’? He used it correctly and PC people got up in arms. He got his job back however. Think People!:smack:
To the OP – yeah I can understand how people got offended, but honestly I think a lawsuit is not the best way to go at it. It is a huge waste of time and money for everyone involved. Although it could be justified simply because of the anti-eenie meenie publicity it generates.
Slight hijack here. My parents used to have a song on record which most South Africans know – “Ag Pleez Daddy” (pronounced Ach like the German). In the first verse, they are singing about going to the drive in:
Popcorn, chewing gum
peanuts and bubble gum
ice cream, candy floss, and Eskimo Pie
Ag Daddy how we miss
Niggerballs and licorice
Pepsi Cola, Ginger Beer, and Canada Dry
A niggerball is like a gobstopper in the UK (a fairly large spherical sucking sweet that would almost fill your mouth while sucking it) but flavoured with aniseed. It had many different coloured layers to it, so it was a great thrill to take the sweet out of your mouth to determine what colour it was now - as well as show your tongue to your nearest and dearest, so that they could tell you what colour your tongue was!!
The outermost layer of the sweet was black, and the predominant colour that your tongue/teeth would turn was also black (or a really deep purple in fact), and so the sweet was known as a niggerball.
Thanks, sounds baeie lekker. I’ll be sure to look out for them next time I’m down there. But I won’t call them niggerballs. Maybe they will understand gobstoppers.
Because being insensitive requires the opinion of the person who feels you are being insensitive. In other words, it is not your actions nor your intentions that makes you insensitive. It is someone, anyone, telling you that you are being insensitive.
So what happens if you disagree with that person? What if the person you’re speaking to happens to just be too sensitive to things? Is your goal to cater to the wishes of every person, friend and stranger alike, who feels you have swung even slightly right on their moral compass?
The rhyme stated in my OP did not mention anything racist. It did not mention anything prejudicial. The two women interpreted it as sounding similar to something else that had a bad word in it. I believe that is a bit removed to be suing over.
If odd rhymes are routine procedure and to be expected (as opposed to singling out the women, as I thought), then I see no reason for an apology.
