# Effect of Wave Action on Concrete Shoes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 14, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727 "2008-11-14T16:59:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/1 "2008-11-14T16:59:54Z")
Link to today’s column: > **[Were “concrete shoes” a favored technique of mob hitmen?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343927/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen)** > [@](#): > > From the column: > > Billy, the narrator, watches this and thinks: “I had of course seen . . . how the tubbed cement made a slow-witted diagram of the sea outside, the slab of it shifting to and fro as the boat rose and fell on the waves.” Cool line, but a little voice in the back of your head, or anyway in the back of mine, is saying: Right, like some mob boss bent on murder is going to wait two hours for the concrete to dry. Okay, follow-up question on this little literary tableau: if you encase a living guy’s feet in cement _in a moving boat_, won’t the wave action act like a cement mixer and prevent the cement from setting, even in 2 hours? If the sea was dead calm, okay, but here Doctorow’s got enough motion so that the wave action is echoed in the tub (not to mention that the victim will probably be attempting as many furtive toe and ankle movements as he can get away with). Would the cement have ever set in this scenario? (Does cement in a cement mixer set eventually if you do not continue to add water?) ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/2 "2008-11-14T18:26:02Z")
I think the author is [del]dreaming[/del] using a bit of poetic license here. Concrete isn’t all that sloshy. Even a fairly wet mix wouldn’t slosh around much at all in a washtub sized container, and anything like a 3” or 4” slump mix would pretty much just sit there once it was mixed. From the concrete I’ve done, the waves would have to be so bad they’d pitch everybody right off the boat before the did much mixing in a small, shallow container like that. The victim moving his feet is another question. It would relatively easy to move you feet enough that you’d create enough room to pull your feet out once in the water. However the bad guys would probably notice this and, uh, “calm you down” through one mechanism or another. And concrete will set in the mixer in an hour or two (depending on various factors) if you don’t wash it out or chemically stop the process. Hang around any concrete batch plant and you’ll see a drum or two waiting to be chipped out or disposed of. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/3 "2008-11-14T20:38:47Z")
If I may, Doctorow says the cement “slab” shifted to and fro. Presumably the victim’s feet were interred on dry land and only now were they taking the boat out to the dump location. The waves would cause the tub of cement to slide back and forth on the bottom of the boat. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![\_etalhea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/779978/32.png) [@\_etalhea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_etalhea)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/4 "2008-11-17T20:12:05Z")
Just so people will stop saying it (wishful thinking), you can’t encase a DAMN THING in cement. Cement is an ingredient in concrete. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/5 "2008-11-17T21:37:36Z")
> [@\_etalhea](#): > > Just so people will stop saying it (wishful thinking), you can’t encase a DAMN THING in cement. > > Cement is an ingredient in concrete. That’s one definition of the word. Others are pretty synonymous with concrete or mortar. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/6 "2008-11-19T20:28:01Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > That’s one definition of the word. Others are pretty synonymous with concrete or mortar. Cement is synonymous with concrete only by those who don’t understand the difference between the two. Is flour also synonymous with bread? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/7 "2008-11-20T04:40:06Z")
Hate to break it to you, but when studying language (as we are doing since we are discussing semantics), common usage trumps ideas of how a word rationally should be used. “Cement” has been used to refer to concrete longer than homo- has meant relating to homosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/8 "2008-11-20T05:28:02Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Hate to break it to you, but when studying language (as we are doing since we are discussing semantics), common usage trumps ideas of how a word rationally should be used. I know, and that literally burns me up. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/9 "2008-11-20T13:24:12Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Cement is synonymous with concrete only by those who don’t understand the difference between the two. Including modern lexicographers: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: ce·ment > > 1 a: **concrete** b: a powder of alumina, silica, lime, iron oxide, and magnesium oxide burned together in a kiln and finely pulverized and used as an ingredient of mortar and concrete ; also : any mixture used for a similar purpose2: a binding element or agency: as a: a substance to make objects adhere to each other b: something serving to unite firmly \ 3: cementum4: a plastic composition made especially of zinc or silica for filling dental cavities5: the fine-grained groundmass or glass of a porphyry (Emphasis added.) [CEMENT Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cement) ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/10 "2008-11-20T15:43:10Z")
“Including modern lexicographers” Oh please… Lexicographers are required to record erroneous uses, if such uses are at all common. That doesn’t magically make mistakes right. In any case, I, for one, prefer not to make blunders that result in hardhats laughing at my bourgeois ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/11 "2008-11-20T16:56:45Z")
In his article Cecil points out that the person encased in cement (concrete) turned out not to be a mob hit. Do drug traders count? The current New Yorker talks about the Mexico drug trade. They mention Amado Carrillo as the one who died in 1997 on an operating table in Mexico City while getting plastic surgery on his face. The article says that his attending physicians also died, found months later encased in…cement. I bow to concrete. ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/12 "2008-11-20T17:04:11Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > In any case, I, for one, prefer not to make blunders that result in hardhats laughing at my bourgeois ignorance. This is the reason I try to be careful to correctly use the terms concrete and cement. I’m a computer geek who over the years has done a lot of work around plants where concrete powder is manufactured and batch plants where concrete powder is used to mix concrete. I get teased enough by the workers without adding “the dumb geek doesn’t even know the terminology”. ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effect-of-wave-action-on-concrete-shoes/472727/13 "2008-11-21T01:59:20Z")
> [@RJKUgly](#): > > I’m a computer geek who over the years has done a lot of work around plants where concrete powder is manufactured and batch plants where concrete powder is used to mix concrete. I guess I must have been asleep this morning. I really do deserve to be teased about that. Let me try again. I’m a computer geek who over the years has done a lot of work around plants where _cement_ powder is manufactured and batch plants where _cement_ powder is used to mix concrete. sheesh!