# Egg on the face of the IRS **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 10, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739 "2016-02-10T18:45:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/1 "2016-02-10T18:45:46Z")
> **[Cyber-thieves steal Pin codes from US Revenue](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35543578)** > > The US government's tax collection agency says attackers fooled its computers into generating more than 100,000 tax return Pin codes. > [@](#): > > The US government’s tax collection agency has said attackers fooled its computers into generating more than 100,000 tax return Pin codes. Oh well, at least they’ve admitted it. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/2 "2016-02-10T21:25:51Z")
More than 300,000 taxpayer accounts got [hacked](http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/08/17/irs-hack-get-transcript/31864171/#) at the IRS last year, too. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/3 "2016-02-11T00:02:26Z")
Oh well, they’re down from 0.1% to 0.03%. In the noise, really… ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/4 "2016-02-11T01:20:45Z")
Anyone have another link? The article is so incoherently written it’s not clear what exactly happened? They were able to associate a random SSN with the PIN used to file that person’s return? The PIN is mostly arbitrary, I’d be more concerned with the opposite direction. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/5 "2016-02-11T02:35:25Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Anyone have another link? The article is so incoherently written it’s not clear what exactly happened? They were able to associate a random SSN with the PIN used to file that person’s return? The PIN is mostly arbitrary, I’d be more concerned with the opposite direction. It was poorly written explained by the IRS in their press release. > **[IRS Statement on e-filing PIN | Internal Revenue Service](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-statement-on-e-filing-pin)** > > February 9, 2016, 6:30 p.m. EST The IRS recently identified and halted an automated attack upon its Electronic Filing PIN application on IRS.gov. Using personal data stolen elsewhere outside the IRS, identity thieves used malware in an attempt to... > [@](#): > > The IRS recently identified and halted an automated attack upon its Electronic Filing PIN application on [IRS.gov](http://IRS.gov). Using personal data stolen elsewhere outside the IRS, identity thieves used malware in an attempt to generate E-file PINs for stolen social security numbers. An E-file pin is used in some instances to electronically file a tax return. > > No personal taxpayer data was compromised or disclosed by IRS systems. The IRS also is taking immediate steps to notify affected taxpayers by mail that their personal information was used in an attempt to access the IRS application. The IRS is also protecting their accounts by marking them to protect against tax-related identity theft. > > IRS cybersecurity experts are currently assessing the situation, and the IRS is working closely with other agencies and the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration. The IRS also is sharing information with its Security Summit state and industry partners. > > Based on our review, we identified unauthorized attempts involving approximately 464,000 unique SSNs, of which 101,000 SSNs were used to successfully access an E-file PIN. > > The incident, involving an automated bot, occurred last month, and the IRS continues to closely monitor the web application. > > This incident is not connected or related to last week’s outage of IRS tax processing systems ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/6 "2016-02-11T13:08:36Z")
It sounds like they’re talking about income tax fraud. Someone uses your SSN number to file a fake income tax return, making up numbers that result in a big refund. Of course, the refund goes into their account, not yours. And then when you file your legitimate return, things get hairy, because “you” already got your refund. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/7 "2016-02-11T16:09:42Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > It sounds like they’re talking about income tax fraud. Someone uses your SSN number to file a fake income tax return, making up numbers that result in a big refund. Of course, the refund goes into their account, not yours. And then when you file your legitimate return, things get hairy, because “you” already got your refund. I wonder how someone could do this. About 10 years ago my now ex and I had our tax return held because one of my ex’s employers had not submitted W-2’s to the IRS. It took a couple warnings from the IRS before he finally submitted the forms and it still took a month before our tax return was in our bank account. Do they file fake W-2’s too? ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/8 "2016-02-11T18:02:29Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > I wonder how someone could do this. About 10 years ago my now ex and I had our tax return held because one of my ex’s employers had not submitted W-2’s to the IRS. It took a couple warnings from the IRS before he finally submitted the forms and it still took a month before our tax return was in our bank account. Do they file fake W-2’s too? What you describe sounds like a return held up for review, and it wouldn’t have been done just because the W-2 was not yet submitted. It’s still the case that about 1% of returns get delayed by 3-9 weeks while the IRS verifies information. (That’s 1% in my practice; not sure of the national number). Here’s the longer version of what’s going on: 10 years ago was the legacy e-filing system. The IRS has modernized it, now called MEF (modernized e-filing). Part of that modernization mandate (from upper levels of the government, so the IRS not the only entity at fault here) was to speed up return and refund processing. Regarding W-2 forms: they are not submitted to the IRS directly. Employers file W-2 and W-3 with the Social Security Administration, with the forms due 2/28 (by mail) or 3/31 (electronically), and then SSA shares the data with the IRS. That means that even a timely filed W-2 might not be in the IRS’s systems until **May**. The IRS will tell you the same if you call them for a copy. So the system was built with a stated intention of providing rapid refunds based on the honesty of the filers and only using IRS information later to catch and penalize people who made mistakes. Any improvements in this system have to happen at a much more fundamental level. Either change the refund system so that nobody gets a dime until June\*, or make a major overhaul of employer reporting requirements so that the IRS can get their information more quickly. ---
**Author:** ![missouri65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@missouri65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missouri65)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/9 "2016-02-12T17:08:50Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > [Cyber-thieves steal Pin codes from US Revenue - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35543578) > > Oh well, at least they’ve admitted it. Not sure why the IRS should have egg on its face for catching attempted fraud before it was completed. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egg-on-the-face-of-the-irs/745739/10 "2016-02-12T19:11:35Z")
> [@missouri65](#): > > Not sure why the IRS should have egg on its face for catching attempted fraud before it was completed. Because it shouldn’t have happened in the first place, and they did get away with a lot of it.