# Egypt: Pres. Morsy asserts authority over the army **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323 "2012-08-13T00:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/21 "2012-08-14T15:21:26Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Better than the “general” Israeli opinion, or your own Israel-friendly opinion? > > Either are, I’m sure, clearly preferable to “conspiracy theories” “and the idiots who believe in them”. > > On the other hand, maybe I’ll just wait a while and see what pops up. And yet, you have given zero evidence that the official explanation or what Alessan is saying is incorrect…just some vague innuendo and bullshit about him being Israeli and thus suspect. Or something… ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/22 "2012-08-14T16:51:04Z")
There is no evidence, that’s kind of the problem. \*Any/some \*of the following _might_ help: photos, names, nationalities, independent witnesses, after the fact independent reporting, bodies/graves, motive/s - explanations for inexplicable behaviour, some sense of how they came to overpower an army barracks, where they came from, who trained them: It’s not like Israel is lacking in tech, or the Intel world in general doesn’t know what goes on in Sinai. Factual stuff , rather than waffle followed by ‘hey, conspiracy theories - LOL’. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/23 "2012-08-14T17:13:00Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > I’m not suggesting anything other than there’s not enough information In other words, you’re Just Asking Questions. Of course, the information is confirmed by both the Israelis and Egyptians, but there are Questions to Ask. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/24 "2012-08-14T17:15:38Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > There is no evidence, that’s kind of the problem. > > \*Any/some \*of the following _might_ help: photos, names, nationalities, independent witnesses, after the fact independent reporting, bodies/graves, motive/s - explanations for inexplicable behaviour, some sense of how they came to overpower an army barracks, where they came from, who trained them: It’s not like Israel is lacking in tech, or the Intel world in general doesn’t know what goes on in Sinai. > > Factual stuff , rather than waffle followed by ‘hey, conspiracy theories - LOL’. You do understand, I hope, that there are some obvious reasons, not involving conspiracies or false-flag ops or cover-ups, why Egyptian and/or Israeli authorities might actually have all that information, but be reluctant to publish it. Cops do not keep the details of an ongoing investigation secret because they are trying to shield anybody’s reputation. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/25 "2012-08-14T17:18:26Z")
[QUOTE=PrettyVacant] There is no evidence, that’s kind of the problem. [/QUOTE] Unless you are asserting that both Israel AND Egypt are in on it (in on what, exactly?), then it’s kind of silly to question the official story at this point without anything more to go on than the fact that the story doesn’t fit into the way you seem to think it works. I don’t see anything implausible about terrorists doing that sort of thing, and can’t think of why Israel and Egypt would make up such a story and stick with it together. They aren’t exactly bosom buddies, after all, especially lately. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/26 "2012-08-14T17:21:54Z")
**PrettyVacant** , you’re hijacking the thread. If you want to Just Ask Questions, start a new topic. The subject here is supposed to be the political developments in Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/27 "2012-08-14T17:50:16Z")
I know, out loud critical thinking - it’s a real shocker: It’s really no wonder this board has gone so far down the crapper. Marley 23, you really are just so desperate to assert yourself. You do what your dick tells you feels good, but I really can’t be doing with people like you. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/28 "2012-08-14T19:07:46Z")
I know critical thinking when I see it, and I’m not seeing any in your posts here. In any case, here’s a warning for being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/29 "2012-08-14T19:12:05Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Unless you are asserting that both Israel AND Egypt are in on it (in on what, exactly?), then it’s kind of silly to question the official story at this point without anything more to go on than the fact that the story doesn’t fit into the way you seem to think it works. I don’t see anything implausible about terrorists doing that sort of thing, and can’t think of why Israel and Egypt would make up such a story and stick with it together. They aren’t exactly bosom buddies, after all, especially lately. Yeah, I can’t off the top think of any reason why the Egyptian military would go along with a false story that (as in the subject of this thread) has led to them being thoroughly humiliated and discredited, resulting in (apparently) losing power. 😕 Moreover, the Israelis - whose military appears, at least, to have done a creditable job - have no reason to support a false story that has (evidently) empowered a civilian government that is no friend of theirs. In short, both parties who are necessary to support a conspiracy have lost something by the facts as alleged, and neither has a plausible motive for supporting the story. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/30 "2012-08-14T21:27:28Z")
Well, get back to me in 3-6 months, I first want to see the choreography that unfolds on the back of this. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/31 "2012-08-14T21:39:11Z")
Again: take this discussion to another thread. That goes for anyone positing conspiracies or responding to claims of a conspiracy. The tangent does not belong in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/32 "2012-08-15T00:10:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But the question is, is Egypt’s military establishment going to take this lying down? After making clear repeatedly over the past two years that they still consider themselves not only a legitimate political force, but the most legitimate one in the country? Morsi lay back and let the military do their thing for a few months after he took office. Suddenly, he has fired miltary leaders and civilian oversight authorities and reversed several changes to the Constitution ordered by the military. However, there has been no backlash from within the military, itself, or even any public disapproval of his actions. My guess, (taken, admittedly from some talking heads), is that he has managed to persuade a significant number of the top generals and military-associated leaders to back him in his changes and that we are seeing him come into his own, supported by at least some significant faction within the military. That is not all that difficult to believe. When the military stepped in to assert order at the fall of Mubarak, they did not avail themselves of the opportunity to simply take over the country while proclaiming themselves the “saviors.” They actually allowed a number of democratic reforms. It would seem that, in general, they are not intersted in ruling the country and that some portion of them are actually in favor of the military being subservient to civilian rule. For the moment, it would seem that if there are factions within the military that want all the power, they have been overruled by the faction that wants to get out of the “ruling” game. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/33 "2012-08-15T01:30:13Z")
It’s also quite possible that when Ms Clinton was there, she told them that they needed to work on civilian rule, because we probably wouldn’t keep the money flowing after another coup, given regional (ahem) _attitudes_. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/34 "2012-08-15T01:45:21Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > For the moment, it would seem that if there are factions within the military that want all the power, they have been overruled by the faction that wants to get out of the “ruling” game. I would also guess that there was an “understanding” that being subject to civilian rule wouldn’t interefere with the money. As I understand it, being a Colonel or Generall in Egypt is pretty damn lucrative. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/35 "2012-08-15T02:39:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Again: take this discussion to another thread. That goes for anyone positing conspiracies or responding to claims of a conspiracy. The tangent does not belong in this thread. So this is probably not the place to complain about Morsi or his work with The Smiths. Gotcha. I hadn’t heard about that raid, **Alessan**. I missed any mention of it at the time or since then in the US media, but I’m not so much of a news junkie right now, it being an election year. :eek: But the second armored car lasted as long as three minutes in Israel before being destroyed? Is the IDF getting sloppy? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323/36 "2012-08-17T22:19:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > My guess, (taken, admittedly from some talking heads), is that he has managed to persuade a significant number of the top generals and military-associated leaders to back him in his changes and that we are seeing him come into his own, supported by at least some significant faction within the military. > . > [@Zakalwe](#): > > I would also guess that there was an “understanding” that being subject to civilian rule wouldn’t interefere with the money. As I understand it, being a Colonel or Generall in Egypt is pretty damn lucrative. That’s basically what insinuated an article I read. A “younger generation” was quite willing to have the “old guard” ousted, especially since the latter had proved mostly unable to handle the current situation. And supposedly, they would stop messing with politics, while Morsi wouldn’t touch the military’s economical empire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/egypt-pres-morsy-asserts-authority-over-the-army/631323.md?page=1)