# Either Star Trek or Middle-earth is to be removed from history. Y'all choose **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [June 10, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677 "2013-06-10T23:53:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/1 "2013-06-10T23:53:44Z")
Putting on my evil hat … So I just checked the Global Happiness Meter, and it’s a higher than I am, ah, happy with. Don’t worry–it’s just a smidgeon too high, so I’m not going to unlimber the mass driver or anything. No, I’ll just be hopping into the continua buggy and heading back a few decades to [del]brutally murder[/del] delicately excise either Gene Roddenberry or J.R.R. Tolkien from history– Wait.I can’t do that. I be depriving MYSELF of Tolkien, not to mention[Nichelle Nichols in her evil costume](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9iw9xc7jn1r1r7rjo1_500.jpg), and that’s nuts. Okay, new plan. In 24 hours – well make that 23 hours, 58 minutes, 32 seconds – I’ll be modifying one of the orbiting 1920s’ death rays so as remove all vestiges of either Roddenberry’s or Tolkien’s works (and their derivatives, natch) from the Earth. (I will of course still have possession of the copies in the protected archives, kept on Europa.) This ray will also fuck with everyone’s memory, so you’ll have a vague memory of loving (or hating) Trek or LotR, but not WHY you loved (or hated) it. You guys choose. Which would you rather lose, and why? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/2 "2013-06-10T23:59:33Z")
If I had to pick, I’d go with Middle Earth. My reasoning is that both are seminal works in a genre of fiction and both will leave gaping voids in popular entertainment. But I feel that the genre of epic fantasy is confined to popular entertainment. Nobody decides to become a wizard in real life because they were inspired by _The Lord of the Rings_. Science fiction, on the other hand, inspires young people to enter the fields of science and engineering as well as science fiction. So I feel the loss of Star Trek would have a greater impact outside of its genre. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/3 "2013-06-11T00:15:17Z")
The hobbits die! Of course, Evil being Evil we can’t pick some from column A and some from Column B, because I’d love to see Voyager, Enterprise, ST - V and Season 1 of TNG disappear. But the rest is too important, so bye-bye to Middle Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/4 "2013-06-11T00:15:28Z")
I love Trek, and I’ve never really got into Tolkein, so the choice is an easy one for me. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/5 "2013-06-11T00:16:46Z")
I’ve spent a lot more time in the Federation than Middle Earth. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/6 "2013-06-11T00:20:13Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I’ve spent a lot more time in the Federation than Middle Earth. Here, try a hit of **this!** Straight from Tom Bombadil’s Garden! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/7 "2013-06-11T00:21:36Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The hobbits die! > > Of course, Evil being Evil we can’t pick some from column A and some from Column B, because I’d love to see Voyager, Enterprise, ST - V and Season 1 of TNG disappear. But the rest is too important, so bye-bye to Middle Earth. How do you get rid of Season 1 of TNG without getting rid of the rest of it? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/8 "2013-06-11T00:27:51Z")
Delete it from your Netflix queue? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/9 "2013-06-11T00:31:45Z")
I’ve never gotten into Lord of the Rings, or the Hobbit, or any of the Middle Earth mythology. On the other hand, I’ve been a Star Trek fan from the beginning, so it’s an easy choice. Buh-bye, Tolkien. On the other hand, if there’s no Lord of the Rings, would Led Zeppelin’s music sound any differently? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/10 "2013-06-11T00:33:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > How do you get rid of Season 1 of TNG without getting rid of the rest of it? In TOS, Kirk is already Captain, Spock is already Science Officer, etc., and have been for some unspecified time, when the first season opens _in medias res_. Like that. Show begins with Season 2, and Season 1 becomes backstory-never-mentioned. [Riker has a beard.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard) Riker has **always** had a beard. The Great Bird of the Galaxy is watching you. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/11 "2013-06-11T00:33:42Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I’ve never gotten into Lord of the Rings, or the Hobbit, or any of the Middle Earth mythology. On the other hand, I’ve been a Star Trek fan from the beginning, so it’s an easy choice. Buh-bye, Tolkien. > > On the other hand, if there’s no Lord of the Rings, would Led Zeppelin’s music sound any differently? Hmm. I hadn’t thought of the LZ issue. That’s another reason to rid the world of Tolkien! > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In TOS, Kirk is already Captain, Spock is already Science Officer, etc., and have been for some unspecified time, when the first season opens _in medias res_. Like that. Show begins with Season 2, and Season 1 becomes backstory-never-mentioned. [Riker has a beard.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard) Riker has **always** had a beard. The Great Bird of the Galaxy is watching you. [hovind] Facts that contradict my position will not be admitted into evidence. [/hovind] ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/12 "2013-06-11T00:38:04Z")
Tolkien’s stuff is spellbinding, so much so that I’ve never once read it. The very concept fails to interest me. Blow it all away. No regrets. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/13 "2013-06-11T00:43:00Z")
I love them both equally, or at least did up through the end of _Deep Space Nine_. But since JJ Abrams has now completely destroyed Star Trek, we might as well put it out of its misery. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/14 "2013-06-11T00:47:38Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I love them both equally, or at least did up through the end of _Deep Space Nine_. But since JJ Abrams has now completely destroyed Star Trek, we might as well put it out of its misery. Hey, I hated the 2009 movie too (I haven’t seen the latest one, because, honestly, why would I?) but it’s possible just to ignore the latest version. And even Voyager & Enterprise weren’t all bad. The former had good episodes randomly strewn among the dreck, and the latter was just finding its feet when they axed it. Deep Space Nine, of course, was by far the best of the six TV series. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/15 "2013-06-11T00:58:05Z")
Tolkein is far far more important than Trek. He basically kick-started the entire Fantasy genre of the 20th Century. There was fantasy before LoTR, (E R Edison, Conan the Barbarian, and so on) but it was not particularly widespread nor popular. It was seen as a _children’s_ genre. Trek was innovative, and spawned a lot of imitators _on TV specifically_. But it wasn’t all that innovative in terms of the general SF genre. The Golden Age of science fiction was the 50’s. Books had already gone before where Trek was boldly going (If your question was “take out Tolkein or Asimov?” that would be a lot harder). Even in terms of TV science fiction it wasn’t the first among popular influential SF series’ - _The Twilight Zone_ precedes it by seven years, and _Doctor Who_ by three. So, that’s my heresy. Let the burning commence. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/16 "2013-06-11T01:42:28Z")
Star Trek is, at best, an entertaining confection that works best when you think about it least. Middle Earth is one of the great, enduring monuments of speculative fiction, whose stature only grows the more you study it. Might as well ask, “Which do you keep: Tolkien, or Keeping Up with the Kardashians?” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/17 "2013-06-11T01:53:15Z")
Can I divert the satellites to hit, say, _Buck Rogers_ instead? No? OK, then, I’d keep Tolkien. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/18 "2013-06-11T01:58:41Z")
By sheer volume alone ST has 100’s more hours of entertainment than Hobbit type movies. Also, ST offers the quick fix. I can watch for an hour and get my fix in. With Hobbit movies, you need to commit MORE than two hours. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/19 "2013-06-11T02:01:29Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Tolkein is far far more important than Trek. He basically kick-started the entire Fantasy genre of the 20th Century. That settles it, then. Lock, load, and set the time machine for Bloemfontein 1892. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677/20 "2013-06-11T02:09:09Z")
_Star Trek_ has inspired kids to become engineers and scientists and astronauts. Tolkien just made them into nerds. Plus Stephen Colbert. Okay, just nerds. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-star-trek-or-middle-earth-is-to-be-removed-from-history-yall-choose/660677.md?page=2)