# Either the insanity of left Feminism or the idiocy of modern journalism: Obama & basketball game **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079 "2009-10-25T19:37:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/21 "2009-10-26T15:48:45Z")
I’m going to vote for “journalistic idiocy,” and that it’s a complaint in search of an issue. > [@zamboniracer](#): > > Sebelius is about a foot shorter than Obama, and she played college hoops at that noted powerhouse, Trinity Washington College. (Who?). My money’s on the Prez if they ever play one on one basketball. She’s also about 15 years older than Obama is. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/22 "2009-10-26T15:54:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is really contrived. Are there a lot of women who are _asking_ to play in these games? Is Hillary Clinton clamoring to get boxed out by a 6’2" bodyguard? Or by Reggie Love, who was a wide receiver in college and got a sniff of the NFL at linebacker. Not to mention winning a National Championship in basketball. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/23 "2009-10-26T16:04:23Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Really? How would you support that assertion? > > Seriously, you think the UConn Huskies would struggle against a high school boys team? > > I’ve got some good shit; but I want some of what you’re smoking. One queer strawman you set up in reply to Mace. He said a good boys team (which I think in the context clearly meant a highly competitive team), not any boys team. And I should think that given the preponderate role of height and reach in basketball on a team basis, that a good boys team in such games would in fact take a women’s team. No need for feminist blustering and strawmen (or women). > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > … It’s not some kind of symbolic social event. He’s addicted to the physical exertion and hard competition. Why would he want to water that competition down by putting women into the mix? It would defeat the whole purpose. **I notice there aren’t a lot of old men or fat guys in on those games either.** … . (emphasis added) Agog of this issue I googled around and did find some women’s forums which featured hard feminist yammering about how they were sure business was being done on the side. Having watched video’s of Obama’s games, I rather find that hard to credit (golf, yes, certainly, the basketball games - bloody damned hard to talk serious biz in the hard games they seem to be playing). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/24 "2009-10-26T16:10:44Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Agog of this issue I googled around and did find some women’s forums which featured hard feminist yammering about how they were sure business was being done on the side. Having watched video’s of Obama’s games, I rather find that hard to credit (golf, yes, certainly, the basketball games - bloody damned hard to talk serious biz in the hard games they seem to be playing). Whoopi made this same point on _The View_ (how is it that I don’t watch that show often, or _Dr. Phil_, but seem to mention it on the Dope every time I do?). Valid, I think, but then so are women’s basic worries that activities their bosses engage in with coworkers that have nothing to do with work help them bond and curry favor in ways that then influence their work lives and positions. I’m not sure how much it applies to Obama, but it’s a little more than ‘blustering’ or ‘yammering.’ ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/25 "2009-10-26T16:34:21Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Really? How would you support that assertion? > > Seriously, you think the UConn Huskies would struggle against a high school boys team? > > I’ve got some good shit; but I want some of what you’re smoking. [Roster of 2008-2009 NCAA Champion Huskies basketball team](http://www.courant.com/sports/college/husky/women/hc-ucwomen-roster-0809-form,0,2226245,results.formprofile?SortBy=cdb_01_num+&PageSize=20&Page=1&turbine_cdb_lib__cdb_01_txt=) Top 10 Seniors and Juniors (High School Boys) in New York City last year: INSIDEHOOPS TOP 10 NYC BASKETBALL SENIORS: 1. Malik Booth 5-9, Christ the King (St. John’s) 2. Melquan Bolding 6-4, Archbishop Stepinac (Louisville) 3. Nathaniel Lester 6-4, Canarsie (Hofstra) 4. Mike Coburn 6-0, Mt. Vernon (Rutgers) 5. Andrew Gabriel 6-5 ,(Christ the King) 6. Andrew Bienert 6-2, Chaminade (Bucknell) 7. Markeys Dean 6-5, St. Dominic (Stony Brook - verbal) 8. Gerald Colds 6-0, St. Raymond (Drexel) 9. Jamie Harris 5-9 Wings Academy (Drexel) 10. Paul Scotland 6-1, Urban Peace Academy INSIDEHOOPS TOP 10 NYC BASKETBALL JUNIORS: 1. Sylvan Landesburg 6-4, Holy Cross 2. Theodore “Mookie” Jones 6-6, Peekskill 3. Erving Walker 5-8, Christ the King (Florida - verbal) 4. Ryan Pearson 6-5, Christ the King 5. Kevin Jones 6-7, Mt. Vernon 6. Sean Kilpatrick 6-3, White Plains 7. James Southerland 6-6, Cardozo 8. Kemba Walker 5-10, Rice 9. Trinity Fields 6-1, Cardozo 10. Darryl “Truck” Bryant 6-1, St. Raymond If you compare the two, you’ll see there’s maybe a slight height advantage for the boys. The women all look big and buff. I think it would make an interesting challenge. Probably would bet on the boys, though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/26 "2009-10-26T16:40:40Z")
The article was a bit weird; purportedly about basketball, but actually about whether Obama’s staff is male-dominated, which _is_ a significant issue. > [@Homebrew](#): > > Really? How would you support that assertion? > > Seriously, you think the UConn Huskies would struggle against a high school boys team? > > I’ve got some good shit; but I want some of what you’re smoking. I guess it would depend on which high school team. I’m fairly certain LeBron James or Tracy McGrady could have scored at will against a womens’ college basketball team as high school seniors. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/27 "2009-10-26T16:43:43Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > If you compare the two, you’ll see there’s maybe a slight height advantage for the boys. The women all look big and buff. I think it would make an interesting challenge. Probably would bet on the boys, though. It’s not only about height. Generally speaking, men are stronger, faster, have quicker response times, etc. than women. And men play above the rim, while women don’t. Even the 5’ 9" guys are dunking. I don’t know about UConn, but at Duke University the women’s team regularly scrimmages against men because they provide stiffer competition. Note this is not a team of players, just a bunch of guys without coaching or playbooks or conditioning and such. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/28 "2009-10-26T16:46:56Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > [Is this in fact an issue in the US of A](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/us/politics/25vibe.html?ref=politics), as I see from the this it was first page news on the leading American daily, NY Times: whinging on about Obama playing basketball with only Lads from Congress. It is either really piss-poor journalism (from page news??) or the insanity of hard Left feminism taken to self-mockery. Epic :rolleyes: My girlfriend emailed me that this morning. Now she is the athletic one (black belt matial arts, and she is a gymnastics coach) and I occasionally kick ass at Halo 3. She thought this was stupid. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/29 "2009-10-26T16:50:33Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > We can douse the pitchforks and put the torches back in the hay loft. > > [Melody Barnes plays golf with the president; first woman to do so.](http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/10/26/obama-golfs-with-adviser-melody-barnes-first-female-to-join-h/#) She doesn’t _appear_ to be a nappy-headed ho, but I guess she’ll have to do. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/30 "2009-10-26T16:51:34Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > [Roster of 2008-2009 NCAA Champion Huskies basketball team](http://www.courant.com/sports/college/husky/women/hc-ucwomen-roster-0809-form,0,2226245,results.formprofile?SortBy=cdb_01_num+&PageSize=20&Page=1&turbine_cdb_lib__cdb_01_txt=) > > Top 10 Seniors and Juniors (High School Boys) in New York City last year: > INSIDEHOOPS TOP 10 NYC BASKETBALL SENIORS: > > INSIDEHOOPS TOP 10 NYC BASKETBALL JUNIORS: > > If you compare the two, you’ll see there’s maybe a slight height advantage for the boys. The women all look big and buff. I think it would make an interesting challenge. Probably would bet on the boys, though. Picking an all-star of boys is not the same as picking a high school team. I find it improbable that a simply “good” high school boys team could take on UConn, which was the assertion. I am open to being corrected; but I would like to know the basis for the assertion. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/31 "2009-10-26T17:19:33Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Picking an all-star of boys is not the same as picking a high school team. I find it improbable that a simply “good” high school boys team could take on UConn, which was the assertion. I am open to being corrected; but I would like to know the basis for the assertion. Jaysus. The basis of the assertion was Mace’s own fucking evaluation, get off your bloody horse. You’re the one warping the comment into something else, although Contra provides you something for your strawman: > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > It’s not only about height. Generally speaking, men are stronger, faster, have quicker response times, etc. than women. And men play above the rim, while women don’t. Even the 5’ 9" guys are dunking. > > I don’t know about UConn, but at Duke University the women’s team regularly scrimmages against men because they provide stiffer competition. Note this is not a team of players, just a bunch of guys without coaching or playbooks or conditioning and such. > [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Whoopi made this same point on _The View_ (how is it that I don’t watch that show often, or _Dr. Phil_, but seem to mention it on the Dope every time I do?). Valid, I think, but then so are women’s basic worries that activities their bosses engage in with coworkers that have nothing to do with work help them bond and curry favor in ways that then influence their work lives and positions. I’m not sure how much it applies to Obama, but it’s a little more than ‘blustering’ or ‘yammering.’ And so the bloody fuck what? I’ve worked for women who took the gals out for gals only sorts of things, and suffered not the second thought for it. Yammering on about basketball games as a venue for doing deals is plain stupid. There’s always going to be - either be gender or by just the fact they’re mates or whatnot (golfer versus not golfer) - something one is excluded from. Whimpering about possible deals done is just plain being a whiny twit. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/32 "2009-10-26T17:21:45Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > And so the bloody fuck what? So the bloody fuck that men are generally better at basketball than women. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/33 "2009-10-26T17:28:56Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Picking an all-star of boys is not the same as picking a high school team. I find it improbable that a simply “good” high school boys team could take on UConn, which was the assertion. I am open to being corrected; but I would like to know the basis for the assertion. I picked them because they were easy to find. And they’re all from one city, albeit an easy one, plus the two teams could drive to an undisclosed location halfway between NYC and Hartford and play a game. It’s not even a state all-star team. I imagine that they would make a “good” team, though. Go ahead and pick another good team if you don’t like my choice. I just don’t understand NE basketball well enough to know who might be good or not. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/34 "2009-10-26T17:29:43Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > So the bloody fuck that men are generally better at basketball than women. Sorry, that last line was directed at the _“Valid, I think, but then so are women’s basic worries that activities their bosses engage in with coworkers that have nothing to do with work help them bond and curry favor in ways that then influence their work lives and positions. I’m not sure how much it applies to Obama, but it’s a little more than ‘blustering’ or ‘yammering.’”_ ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/35 "2009-10-26T17:34:49Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Sorry, that last line was directed at the _“Valid, I think, but then so are women’s basic worries that activities their bosses engage in with coworkers that have nothing to do with work help them bond and curry favor in ways that then influence their work lives and positions. I’m not sure how much it applies to Obama, but it’s a little more than ‘blustering’ or ‘yammering.’”_ No, my fault. I didn’t read carefully enough. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/36 "2009-10-26T18:20:30Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Picking an all-star of boys is not the same as picking a high school team. I find it improbable that a simply “good” high school boys team could take on UConn, which was the assertion. I am open to being corrected; but I would like to know the basis for the assertion. I guess we’d have to define “good,” which may well be an unsurmountable sticking point. [Here’s](http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/7gpqQRJSDkWWaixUOzV1kA/ravenscroft-ravens/basketball-winter-08-09/roster.htm) the roster for a pretty good team in NC. They had at least one player (Ryan Kally )recruited to play D-1 ball. He’s athletic, skillful, and an excellent shooter. UConn would have no answer for him. None. All Ravenscroft would need to do is lob it in and let him play volleyball with the backboard until he scored. Of course, they have a 6’ 11" guy and a 6’ 8" guy as well. Not to mention the fact that the rest of the team is stronger, faster, and quicker than most women players. Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy women’s college BB. I watch a lot of it. The good teams are well coached, very skilled in the fundamentals, and do a good job of running plays. But the men play above the rim, on offense and defense. After a while they would simply wear UConn out. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/37 "2009-10-26T20:40:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama invited a woman to play in his golf foursome Yeah, but they still weren’t let in to Augusta. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/38 "2009-10-26T23:26:49Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Really? How would you support that assertion? > > Seriously, you think the UConn Huskies would struggle against a high school boys team? Just from watching women’s college and boys’ HS teams. As others have said, the guys play above the rim. It’s not a fair contest. Frankly, I think women should take their cue from volleyball, where the net is lowered. Basketball courts were designed around men’s bodies, not women’s. At any rate, ignore all that if you want. The main point is that Obama would slaughter Sebelius on the court, contrary to what the post I originally responded to on this topic claimed. > [@](#): > > I’ve got some good shit; but I want some of what you’re smoking. Keepin’ it all to myself, thank-you-very-much. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > ``` > From everything I've read, Obama takes those basketball games seriously and wants to play hard. Is this an example of some women not understanding male athletic competition? It's not some kind of symbolic social event. He's addicted to the physical exertion and hard competition. Why would he want to water that competition down by putting women into the mix? It would defeat the whole purpose. I notice there aren't a lot of old men or fat guys in on those games either. > > ``` > > This is really contrived. Are there a lot of women who are asking to play in these games? Is Hillary Clinton clamoring to get boxed out by a 6’2" bodyguard? Is Valerie Jarret asking to able to take a hard foul on a drive down the lane? While I agree with you that this is all kind of silly, I think you’re missing the point (what little of it there is). It’s not that women are clambering to play hoops, it’s that the activity shuts women out and gives men a one-up. But also, the article was about more than just basketball. Presidential access, in whatever form, is gold. When some people get more of it than others, that’s “news”. Gossipy type of news, but still news. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/39 "2009-10-26T23:43:30Z")
I played on a very good team in high school. State champions, undefeated season one year, bla bla. I’ve also played against some good women’s college players – like low DI level – and one in particular who was NCAA All-American-level. They weren’t all better than me, but the best ones definitely were, and I was better than most guys. UConn would have _killed_ my team. Maybe not Oak Hill when Oak Hill had 7 NBA players, but a “good boys’ team,” absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079/40 "2009-10-27T02:32:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > While I agree with you that this is all kind of silly, I think you’re missing the point (what little of it there is). It’s not that women are clambering to play hoops, it’s that the activity shuts women out and gives men a one-up. But also, the article was about more than just basketball. Presidential access, in whatever form, is gold. When some people get more of it than others, that’s “news”. Gossipy type of news, but still news. So what is your solution? When you are President you are no longer allowed to shoot hoops with your friends, colleagues and peers? Who you shoot hoops with must be preapproved? Or I know - perhaps there is a roster of pre-approved game partners hired and kept on hand for when President Obama wants to shoot hoops? Who’s up for the job of official presidentail basketball opponent? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/either-the-insanity-of-left-feminism-or-the-idiocy-of-modern-journalism-obama-basketball-game/515079.md?page=3)