# Eject! Eject! Eject!... Oops. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 30, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358 "2013-03-30T14:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/21 "2013-03-31T15:42:20Z")
[FAA’s Zodiac 601/650 Aircraft Report: A closer look](http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2010-03_zodiac.asp) > [@](#): > > In addition to the wing structure itself, the FAA had issues with the following: > [ul][li]Errors in the airspeed indication system. The report goes into great detail in this area, but as far as homebuilt aircraft is concerned, making sure your airspeed instruments read properly falls on the shoulders of the builder, not the designer, and should be sorted out during phase one flight testing.[/li] > [li]Stick forces: The FAA gives the 601 and 650 a clean bill of health in this area but then goes on to say, “flight test data from foreign authorities indicates that at aft center of gravity conditions the stick forces do become light. This may be a contributing factor in structural failure accidents if coupled with operating at speeds higher than VA, especially if flown over gross weight and/or with improperly loaded aircraft.” [/li] > “Though the CH 601 XL does not have to comply with 14 CFR Part 23, the data does indicate that stick force gradients may not be acceptable for aircraft that are intentionally or unintentionally flown outside the POH center of gravity limits.” > > The FAA’s assertion begs the question, why would a designer bother to ensure that their plane maintain acceptable stick force gradients for operations outside the center of gravity limits.[/ul] I haven’t searched for its CG range. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/22 "2013-03-31T18:42:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I had not looked into the Zodiac before, but a quick scan of Wiki shows that wing flutter appears to have been an issue in some crashes. I also see that the canopy is hinged at the front. So, if teh canopy is hinged at the front, it had to be flying backwards for the wind to rip it open 😕:dubious: [though a sideways spin would probably rip something open if it caught just right/wrong] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/23 "2013-03-31T18:59:36Z")
Or the pilot could have been ejected without the canopy becoming detached. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/24 "2013-03-31T19:02:07Z")
Did the victim "grease the landing " or not ? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/25 "2013-03-31T19:13:02Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Did the victim "grease the landing " or not ? Well he turned into a grease spot, does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/26 "2013-04-07T01:35:12Z")
I have seen a report written by a pilot who hangs out at the same airport (Collegedale, TN), who knows the instructor well, and who obtained the details of the incident from him. Here’s a summary: Reports about both pilots not wearing seatbelts and the canopy flying off are incorrect. In fact, the instructor (sitting in the right seat) had his belts on. The aircraft owner (a licensed pilot in the left seat) had fastened his belts, but a distraction relating to starting the engine caused him to unfasten his belts, and he then failed to properly re-fasten them. The front-hinged canopy’s latches were either weak or improperly secured, such that they released in flight. This caused the canopy to open a few inches, producing sudden wind noise but no problems with control. (Fully controlled flight with the canopy open has apparently been demonstrated with this model many times.) But the owner apparently over-reacted to this distraction by shoving the stick forward, leading to a steep dive and low G. This caused the canopy to open substantially and, without belts to hold him in place, the aircraft owner to be ejected. The instructor was able to get hold of the single stick (located between the two pilot seats), to safely pull out of the dive, and to land the plane with canopy attached. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/27 "2013-04-07T04:09:58Z")
Like I said before they will find blood and guts but no brains. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/28 "2013-04-07T06:54:53Z")
Look up the NTSB findings on the plane - their comments on the spar were right-on: It never was much, but Heinz kept putting heavier and heavier planes on it. The “fix” ($270, their alleged cost) was a few pieces of aluminum which required removal of the wing, and re-enforcing the center spar cap, and additional pieces which would require an almost total dis-assembly of the wing to install… You should only have to build a plane once. If they didn’t hand out new wings, they sure as hell should have provided a usable spar. And to charge additional money? Add “pay for” to that list of “do once”… Their web page featured a picture of the spar with a rivet gun showing the assembly - I thought it HAD to be the camera angle - they couldn’t possibly be shipping a 3"x2" (center section) spar. It wasn’t the camera angle - they really were shipping in-flight-collasping-wing spars. No excuse for them to do so in the first place - to then try to blame the (Czech) builders of the European model which first demonstrated the trick (that plane was made by those Commies, using God-knows-what metal; YOUR kit is made in the US by Americans, with KNOWN metals). Was simply off the scale. Reading the entries on the builder’s message board was sad - this guy has spent years of time, tens of thousands of dollars, and is afraid to venture away from the runway or exceed 50’ altitude. The advice given was even sadder: let it sit or limit yourself to taxi testing until a fix is available. Hope the guy took that advice. Not surprisingly, the factory (which used to make MiGs) was not amused and dropped them. For European buyers wanting a finished airplane now, the site stated “upon payment, we will find a qualified builder near you” or some such horseshit; doubt if they had many takers. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/29 "2013-04-07T14:40:13Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Or the pilot could have been ejected without the canopy becoming detached. > [@Xema](#): > > The front-hinged canopy’s latches were either weak or improperly secured, such that they released in flight. This caused the canopy to open a few inches, producing sudden wind noise but no problems with control. (Fully controlled flight with the canopy open has apparently been demonstrated with this model many times.) But the owner apparently over-reacted to this distraction by shoving the stick forward, leading to a steep dive and low G. This caused the canopy to open substantially and, without belts to hold him in place, the aircraft owner to be ejected. The instructor was able to get hold of the single stick (located between the two pilot seats), to safely pull out of the dive, and to land the plane with canopy attached. I assumed the pilot was ejected without the canopy becoming detached, since it is hinged at the front, and the latch may have failed. It didn’t occur to me that an open canopy would be the _cause_ of the accident; but rather that something happened to throw the pilot against it and _then_ the canopy opened. Thank you for posting the summary. It illustrates how important is is to follow your checklist, especially after a distraction; and once again shows how a pilot should not allow himself to be distracted by a minor problem. My distraction story: I always use a printed checklist, even when I am intimately familiar with the aircraft. I’m a little compulsive that way. One day, before I got my helicopter certificate, we were preparing for a flight in a Robinson R22. As usual, I was running down the checklist. The instructor had to attend to a physiological necessity, so he told me to go ahead and start up while he… erm, ‘drained the sump’. After he left I attempted to start the engine, but it wouldn’t fire. I tried several times. When the instructor came back, he also tried everything to start the engine. No joy. He was still trying to figure out what was wrong with the helicopter, and I pulled out the checklist again. ‘Mixture: Rich.’ Oops. The mixture was set to idle cut-off. ‘Um, Peter…?’ The engine started right up. Peter said, ‘Let’s not tell anyone about this.’ The funny thing is that later that afternoon there was a celebration at the Airtel for another pilot who had just gotten his turbine transition sign-off. One of the other owners of the FBO was talking about JetRangers. He said, ‘They’re great, once you get the engine started.’ Peter and I looked at each other sheepishly and started to laugh. Of course we had to confess what had happened that day. It was a small distraction. But it was enough for me to miss a rather crucial item on the checklist. Lesson learned: If there is a distraction, back up on the checklist. In flight, I mentioned the window popping open on the Skyhawk. I flew the airplane and dealt with the issue. On my helicopter checkride, the FAA examiner was asking me questions. I told him that I would answer him after I climbed over a ridge on that hot day in the underpowered helicopter on a hot day. Rule #1: Fly The Aircraft. And of course, use your checklist and make sure your seat belt is fastened. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358/30 "2013-04-09T22:01:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Thank you for posting the summary. It illustrates how important is is to follow your checklist, especially after a distraction; and once again shows how a pilot should not allow himself to be distracted by a minor problem. distraction during preflight leads to death. NTSB probes case of texting helicopter pilot > **[Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More](https://news.yahoo.com/)** > > The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eject-eject-eject-oops/654358.md?page=1)