# "El" in Hebrew and Yiddish **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 2, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526 "2023-01-02T11:25:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/1 "2023-01-02T11:25:10Z")
Doing two different things at the same time, my genealogy and Old Testament research, I’ve become exposed to the curiosity of many Old Testament Hebrew names ending in “el” (Michael, Joel, Ezekiel, Israel, Gabriel, Raphael, etc.), meaning “God,” and many contemporary Yiddish names ending in “el” (Velvel, Moishel, Hershel, etc.) which is a diminutive–i.e., my cousin Moishel’s name means “little Moses,” my cousin Velvel’s name means “little Wolf,” etc.) I assume this is just a coincidence, because I don’t see the connection between “Creator of the Universe” and “little one,” but is it? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/2 "2023-01-02T14:17:51Z")
Hebrew and Yiddish come from completely different language families. Hebrew is Afro-Asiatic and Yiddish Indo-European. It’s coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/3 "2023-01-02T14:30:22Z")
Yiddish gets its “el” ending from German which does the same thing: > **[Etymology - -el - Wiktionary, the free dictionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-el#Etymology_5)** ### Suffix **-el** > 1. suffix in diminutives > > ‎\*[Kind](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kind#German)\* (“child”) + ‎\*-el\* → ‎\*[Kindel](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kindel#German)\* (“little child, darling”) > ‎\*[Haus](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Haus#German)\* (“house”) + ‎\*-el\* → ‎\*[Häusel](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/H%C3%A4usel#German)\* (“little house”) > > 1. suffix in nouns indicating appurtenance > > ‎\*[Arm](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Arm#German)\* (“arm”) + ‎\*-el\* → ‎\*[Ärmel](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C3%84rmel#German)\* (“sleeve”) > ‎\*[Eiche](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Eiche#German)\* (“oak”) + ‎\*-el\* → ‎\*[Eichel](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Eichel#German)\* (“acorn”) > > 1. suffix in agent and instrumental nouns > > [Büttel](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/B%C3%BCttel#German), [Meißel](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Mei%C3%9Fel#German) One well-known example not mentioned in this article : Hansel - “little Hans” ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/4 "2023-01-02T14:41:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s coincidence. Ok. But pretty cool coincidence, right? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/5 "2023-01-02T14:43:22Z")
I don’t see it’s “cool”, it’s just coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/6 "2023-01-02T14:54:04Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Yiddish gets its “el” ending from German which does the same thing: Would it be more accurate to say that Yiddish and German get it from the same place? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/7 "2023-01-02T15:19:02Z")
That question has me looking up the structure of the Germanic language families. If Yiddish is placed as an offshoot of German it would be accurate in saying that “it get’s its morphological structure **from** German” however if it split off from a precursor to German then it would be appropriate to say that “they both get it **from an older language** ” (plus we should try to name the precursor if we know it) Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/8 "2023-01-02T15:21:20Z")
I think Yiddish developed in Central Europe well aftwr features of Germanic languages like a diminutive ending had been established, but I could be wrong ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/9 "2023-01-02T15:23:36Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Hebrew and Yiddish come from completely different language families. Hebrew is Afro-Asiatic and Yiddish Indo-European. Ish? Yiddish is a German dialect, yes, but it does have other language influences, especially Hebrew, and especially on vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/10 "2023-01-02T15:27:36Z")
Sure, all languages have influences from other languages, but at heart Yiddish is a variety of German, and I would expect its diminutives to be from German and not some other language. I think it unlikely that the “El” that means “God” or related to God in Hebrew morphed into a _diminutive_ in Yiddish. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/11 "2023-01-02T15:36:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t see it’s “cool”, it’s just coincidence. Which is why ice cream comes in more flavors than just vanilla. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/12 "2023-01-02T15:39:14Z")
[According to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish) (Never checked any citation so God help me if it is accurate), Yiddish is a High-German language and shares it’s features with other High-German languages. Modern German is also a High-German language but I’m uncertain if old High-German is considered continuous to Modern German itself. Either way, it might be safe to say that Yiddish and Modern German both get their features [from Old High-German](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:West_Germanic_languages_(simplified).svg) (the closest mutually shared precursor that I can find at a casual search). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/13 "2023-01-02T15:47:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yiddish is a German dialect, yes, but it does have other language influences, especially Hebrew, and especially on vocabulary. And especially on names in particular, so it doesn’t sound outlandish that linguistic features relating to names would show a high degree of Hebrew influence. Speaking of such… If a Yiddish youth has a Hebrew name that already has the Hebrew divine -el ending, how is that name diminutized? What would one call little Samuel, or Rachael? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/14 "2023-01-02T15:52:40Z")
In this case I am sure that is correct. But my understanding is that to dismiss the contribution of Hebrew to Yiddish as of the same sort as “all languages have influences on other languages” is very much under appreciating the huge impact Hebrew vocabulary in particular played in Yiddish, even if not in this particular case. [They could fill a book.](https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/collections/yiddish-books/spb-nybc203464/jacobson-steven-a-a-guide-to-the-more-common-hebraic-words-in-yiddish) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/15 "2023-01-02T16:04:20Z")
Upon furthwr thought, I suspect that German and Yiddish were in such close contact throughout their development that their diminutive endings evolved together. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/16 "2023-01-02T16:14:35Z")
Well here’s where language family structuring gets interesting. If the diminutive ending “-el” existed in written records of old High-German then we know exactly where Modern German and Yiddish both got it from (their shared precursor who, itself, got it from…? somewhere, needs further study). It’s all a matter of looking at the written records and tracing usage. It’s a practice that could’ve been adopted by one language then spread to the other (Middle German → Old Yiddish) or it appeared in isolation and spread across many different distinct languages due to popular cultural influence (like Chinese -unlikely but a good demonstration of this concept-). These are questions that can (ideally) be traced if we have the written records. If we don’t have the written records then it would be helpful to look at other Germanic languages in nearby language groupings. Does English (or Dutch, Frisian, Norse, etc) also use “-el”? If so, then the morpheme is probably of a very older progenitor to the Germanic language family itself. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/17 "2023-01-02T16:34:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Speaking of such… If a Yiddish youth has a Hebrew name that already has the Hebrew divine -el ending, how is that name diminutized? What would one call little Samuel, or Rachael? There are other diminutives that can be used. In fact, wikipedia has a list of such: > **[List of diminutives by language | Yiddish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diminutives_by_language#Yiddish)** > > Yiddish frequently uses diminutives. In Yiddish the primary diminutive is -l or -ele in singular, and -lekh or -elekh in plural, sometimes involving a vowel trade in the root. Thus Volf becomes Velvl, Khaim: Khaiml, mame (mother): mamele, Khane: Khanele, Moyshe: Moyshele, kind (child): kindl or kindele, Bobe (grandmother): Bobele, teyl (deal): teylekhl (mote), regn (rain): regndl, hant (hand): hentl, fus (foot): fisl. The longer version of the suffix (-ele instead of -l) sounds generally more aff... (I was somewhat surprised Wikipedia has such a list, but not by how many Yiddish has.) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/18 "2023-01-02T17:25:05Z")
Some of my Yiddish-speaking female relatives had names that ended -erl, which I have assumed was diminutive and related to -el in their dislect. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/19 "2023-01-02T17:39:19Z")
On the other hand, just because Hebrew had an enormous impact on Yiddish is not proof of a particular feature being from Hebrew, as opposed to from another language. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526/20 "2023-01-02T17:47:42Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > If Yiddish is placed as an offshoot of German it would be accurate in saying that “it get’s its morphological structure **from** German” however if it split off from a precursor to German then it would be appropriate to say that “they both get it **from an older language** ” (plus we should try to name the precursor if we know it) Yiddish and German split at some point and simultaneously drifted apart. Presumably German isn’t the same as it was in the 9th Century when the split began. Just because one is much more widely spoken and prevalent doesn’t make it the parent. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-in-hebrew-and-yiddish/977526.md?page=2)