# El Presidente... ¡de ignorancia! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370 "2010-12-08T02:30:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/41 "2010-12-15T19:55:24Z")
Bullshit? Are you saying there are no violent drunks and no do-nothing potheads? If so, I have a Saturday evening I’d like to introduce to you sometime to shed some light. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/42 "2010-12-15T20:08:02Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > How dare those peaceful motherfuckers play musical instruments?? They’re only musical instruments if they’re being used to make music. Otherwise, they’re noisemakers. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/43 "2010-12-15T20:15:10Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Are you saying there are no violent drunks and no do-nothing potheads? Are you saying there are no lazy Mexicans and no violent Black people? ---
**Author:** ![dumbroad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@dumbroad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dumbroad)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/44 "2010-12-15T20:58:32Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > If you’re going to accept violent drunks as an argument against alcohol and in favor of marijuana, then you also have to accept lazy, do-nothing potheads as an argument against marijuana and for alcohol. Personally, I think both characterizations are useless. People who drink alcohol aren’t going to automatically turn into crazy, violent, reckless drunk drivers, just as people who use marijuana aren’t going to automatically become incapable of fulfilling any responsibility. “Do-nothing potheads” are going to be do-nothingers no matter what. No matter what kind of person you are, alcohol will alter your state of mind and affect the decisions you make. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/45 "2010-12-15T21:09:42Z")
Shot … you’ve floated a flawed analogy. Alcohol does make (some) people more violent, and pot does make (some) people more apathetic, but being Mexican does not make someone lazy, nor does being black make one violent. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/46 "2010-12-15T21:17:18Z")
> [@dumbroad](#): > > “Do-nothing potheads” are going to be do-nothingers no matter what. No matter what kind of person you are, alcohol will alter your state of mind and affect the decisions you make. This is just not true. Violent people who smoke pot engage in violence. If they drink they do, too. People who are not violent are not likely to throw a punch, no matter what they’re on. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/47 "2010-12-15T21:27:37Z")
But … alcohol lowers the inhibitions, so an inherrantly violent person who normally can control himself has a tougher time remaining in control when drunk. But if an inherrantly violent person get’s high, he’ll usually forget what he’s pissed about before he throws a punch. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/48 "2010-12-15T21:38:47Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > But … alcohol lowers the inhibitions, so an inherrantly violent person who normally can control himself has a tougher time remaining in control when drunk. > > But if an inherrantly violent person get’s high, he’ll usually forget what he’s pissed about before he throws a punch. That’s a great theory, but it doesn’t work in practice. My own theory was that instead of disinhibition, it was a function of anxiety. But I really don’t know. I only know that, if someone is dangerous, then they’re dangerous regardless of what they’re high on. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/49 "2010-12-15T21:42:07Z")
Sometimes more dangerous … but that’s more true for alcohol than for marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/50 "2010-12-15T21:57:35Z")
> [@dumbroad](#): > > “Do-nothing potheads” are going to be do-nothingers no matter what. No matter what kind of person you are, alcohol will alter your state of mind and affect the decisions you make. Yeah, because alcohol is a drug and marijuana isn’t. Oh, wait, no, they’re both drugs, and they both alter the way your mind works. Were you born retarded, or did you just drink and smoke yourself to this state? > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Alcohol does make (some) people more violent, and pot does make (some) people more apathetic, but being Mexican does not make someone lazy, nor does being black make one violent. Alcohol does not \*make \*people violent. Pot does not \*make \*people apathetic. You are confusing correlation with causation. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/51 "2010-12-15T22:06:25Z")
You’re confusing English with Making Shit Up. Look at my other posts … alcohol lowers inhibitions … which tends to make (some) people _more_ violent. But regardless, your analogy of Lazy Mexicans and Violent Blacks was weak at best and retarded at worst. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/52 "2010-12-15T22:07:15Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Alcohol does not \*make \*people violent. Pot does not \*make \*people apathetic. You are confusing correlation with causation. I’d have to agree with this. When I was a violent individual, if anything, being stoned just stopped me from throwing the first punch. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/53 "2010-12-15T22:25:10Z")
**Jack Batty** , despite your excellent title, I can only conclude than your ten years on this board have been spent masturbating furiously to pictures of people’s cats. Because I can’t see any other way that you could have failed to absorb even the most basic ideas of how science, reasoning, and logic work. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/54 "2010-12-15T22:53:28Z")
It’s probably all the pot I smoke. Listen, if you are contending that alcohol has no effect on people who consume mass quantities of it, and that those people – more often than the ones who smoke weed – display their lack of inhibition in a violent manner, then I have to conclude that we’re just playing the Shot Has To Always Be Right game. Personally, I’d rather drink a beer and beat the cat. ---
**Author:** ![dumbroad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@dumbroad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dumbroad)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/55 "2010-12-15T23:02:30Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Yeah, because alcohol is a drug and marijuana isn’t. Oh, wait, no, they’re both drugs, and they both alter the way your mind works. Were you born retarded, or did you just drink and smoke yourself to this state? > > Alcohol does not \*make \*people violent. Pot does not \*make \*people apathetic. You are confusing correlation with causation. So you’re saying all drugs are going to fuck with people equally? Caffeine is a drug. It’s not going to alter your mind the same way as the next drug. Same with alcohol vs. weed. Just look at the outcomes of drinking vs. being high. It’s HIGHly likely (like that?) you’ll find that weed doesn’t fucking kill people…unless you’re a Mexican smuggling it across the border and some Arizonians decide to do a bit of hunting. Long story. I can do a variety of things when I’m high. I clean, I love to cook, I listen to music (sometimes all three at the same time), I have thoughtful conversations, I read, write, sketch…And if you say the only thing you know that pot does to people is make them stupid, maybe you just attract stupid people. Of course alcohol isn’t angry juice. But, a person with slight anger issues may not have control over themselves once under the influence of alcohol. Then once a person who tends to be lazy smokes weed, it makes them want to be even more , well, lazy. I do admit, there are people out there that CAN handle themselves while drinking. But, there are far more people who, I believe, can’t. I don’t like going to bars or clubs simply because there are drunk fucks who can’t handle themselves who often end up influencing others to act just as stupid. (you know I’m right) And THEN these fucktards have to all find a way home, or to the after party. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/56 "2010-12-16T11:22:06Z")
I have nothing to add, except **D** rugs **A** re **R** eally **E** xpensive. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/57 "2010-12-16T13:49:23Z")
Jesus fucking Christ, why the fuck did this turn into an alcohol v. weed debate? Don’t like booze? Great! Don’t drink. Leave the rest of us alone. Don’t like weed? Great! Don’t smoke. Leave the rest of us alone. Like 'em both? Great! Let’s you and I leave the rest of these blowhards and go enjoy ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![dumbroad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@dumbroad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dumbroad)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/58 "2010-12-16T14:12:58Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > Jesus fucking Christ, why the fuck did this turn into an alcohol v. weed debate? Don’t like booze? Great! Don’t drink. Leave the rest of us alone. Don’t like weed? Great! Don’t smoke. Leave the rest of us alone. Like 'em both? Great! Let’s you and I leave the rest of these blowhards and go enjoy ourselves. I don’t have a problem with alcohol. It’s just the fucking idiots who misuse it. Speaking of alcohol…I’m going to try a new wine. I think it’s called Faki and it’s a plum wine. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/59 "2010-12-16T16:19:48Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Listen, if you are contending that alcohol has no effect on people who consume mass quantities of it, and that those people – more often than the ones who smoke weed – display their lack of inhibition in a violent manner, then I have to conclude that we’re just playing the Shot Has To Always Be Right game. Wow. This has just won the award for Most Incomprehensible Strawman Ever. You are simultaneously claiming that I said: a.) Alcohol has no effect on people; and b.) Alcohol has the effect of making people violent. Both of which are dead wrong and don’t even remotely resemble my point here, which is that claiming that alcohol \*makes \*people violent is inaccurate, just as claiming that pot \*makes \*people lazy is inaccurate (or, for that matter, that it turns everyone into a creative genius). > [@dumbroad](#): > > And if you say the only thing you know that pot does to people is make them stupid, maybe you just attract stupid people. Hear that whooshing noise? It’s the sound of an analogy going over your thick head. Thanks for picking a properly descriptive username, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370/60 "2010-12-16T16:36:22Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > You are simultaneously claiming that I said: > > a.) Alcohol has no effect on people; and > b.) Alcohol has the effect of making people violent. Oh, blow me. That’s not even remotely what I claimed. I was addressing your contentions, which you repeat below, and saying that you are full of shit and you’re now just playing your little game. Going all Internet Clever to prove to all the geeks how right you are about everything. > [@](#): > > Both of which are dead wrong and don’t even remotely resemble my point here, which is that claiming that alcohol \*makes \*people violent is inaccurate, just as claiming that pot \*makes \*people lazy is inaccurate (or, for that matter, that it turns everyone into a creative genius). I’ve said a number of times, which you choose to ignore because it fucks with your argument, that alcohol tends to make people who are already prone to violence more violent. Sorry if the shorthand of “alcohol makes people violent” puts a knot in your shorts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/el-presidente-de-ignorancia/563370.md?page=4)