# Elbows, Come on down and finish this off. (weird guy at gym thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452 "2011-09-07T01:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/1 "2011-09-07T01:21:58Z")
This is only in the Pit since it is a continuation of a closed thread, so don’t expect venom and vitriol. Restate the last post: > [@Weird guy at gym (mind my own business?)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-guy-at-gym-mind-my-own-business/595200/152): > > Impeccable proof that women are making this shit up, pretty clearly. > > Here’s an idea, why don’t you ask your mother, your sister, your wife, your daughters and your female office mates. Come back and tell us how many of them have been groped. > > Bonus points for you if dare to ask them if the gropers were, “anyone whose behaviour even indicates that they might be such perverts”. > > You’re kind of like every naive 12 yr old girl, unwilling to believe the world is populated by such opportunists, no matter how many times her parents try to warn her. I won’t argue with you any further because you’re going to believe what you want regardless of what your sisters and cousins say. The 12 yr old girl wises up when a 30 yr old gym teacher, she’s known and trusted for 2 yrs, opportunistically gropes her, when they are alone together. > > One cannot help but wonder if anything can wise you up. Okay, I did. I asked my wife, **Nashiitashii**. She was never groped, or assaulted during her tween or teen years. There is one data point. She never went through the experiences you state: " (and by the way, it’s all your daughters, sorry to tell you!)". I have no doubt that such things frequently occur, and I never suggested otherwise. I WOULD like to know _if_ it is as prevalent as you suggest. I also have no doubt that such interactions are unpleasant and annoying, demeaning and frightening. That does not mean a logical extension is to automatically assign a negative intent on the part of every male you see. Occam’s razor would return the opposite: That most men are either indifferent, affable, or legitimately interested, in order of probability. The perverts are no doubt a small percentage of the population. Nor is there any reason to assume every male is an opportunist waiting for a chance. There is nothing wrong with being on your guard, but we shouldn’t encourage jumping at shadows or assigning intent when we have little to no information to go on. So take a step back, breathe for a minute and think about how damaging an accusation of that nature can be to a man these days. A conversation with the staff would most likely result in him being asked to leave for fear of liability at a minimum. Better safe than sorry right? At worst, he could quite possibly be questioned by security, or the police, who will then file a report, etc.. all in the name of being prudent. If you don’t think that type of experience is equally damaging to a man’s psyche then YOU are the one who is naive. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/2 "2011-09-07T01:38:48Z")
I personally don’t think society would be able to function if all men had to worry about this on a daily basis. Viewing all men as opportunists is a dangerous assumption to make. I’m sorry, but a lot of males just want to live their lives peacefully without something like a false accusation ruining their life. I’m starting to wonder how common the belief that all men are opportunists actually is. So, if a man accidentally bumps into a girl or actually talks to a girl, this is viewed as suspicious behavior? What in the world? So, should all men just stop talking to women or isolate themselves so that this never happens? I mean seriously… that is messed up! ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/3 "2011-09-07T01:50:34Z")
> [@OneMissedPost](#): > > I personally don’t think society would be able to function if all men had to worry about this on a daily basis. > > Viewing all men as opportunists is a dangerous assumption to make. I’m sorry, but a lot of males just want to live their lives peacefully without something like a false accusation ruining their life. I’m starting to wonder how common the belief that all men are opportunists actually is. > > So, if a man accidentally bumps into a girl or actually talks to a girl, this is viewed as suspicious behavior? What in the world? So, should all men just stop talking to women or isolate themselves so that this never happens? I mean seriously… that is messed up! A hell of a lot of men won’t interact with any children under any circumstances without a female adult around. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/4 "2011-09-07T01:54:43Z")
A link, any link, would be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/5 "2011-09-07T01:58:12Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > A link, any link, would be helpful. [Here’s a link](http://www.michelebachmann.com/)😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/6 "2011-09-07T02:03:03Z")
I was a little shocked at that thread as well. ::checks:: Well, I have a vagina, but I have never been groped in public. I have never been assaulted. I have never been forced into doing something I didn’t want to do. I have, OTOH, stood up for myself, refused to be intimidated by a man, and refused to be made afraid of being a woman. I like men, and I think they get a raw deal. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/7 "2011-09-07T02:06:23Z")
If one guy in 10 gropes 10 women on average, you cover both possibilities, ie the large majority of men dont grope, and many women will experience being groped. Men taking this personally simply arent thinking through the possible mechanics. You only need a minority to make things difficult for the majority. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/8 "2011-09-07T02:14:36Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > , I have a vagina, but I have never been groped in public. I have never been assaulted. I have never been forced into doing something I didn’t want to do. > > I have, OTOH, stood up for myself, refused to be intimidated by a man, and refused to be made afraid of being a woman. > > I like men, and I think they get a raw deal. You’re obviously aware that people are going to read this as your suggesting that when gropings, assaults and so forth happen, it’s because the victim simply doesn’t stand up for him/herself. Is that your intention? Do you actually think you could effectively “refuse” to be a part of the garden variety sexual assault? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/9 "2011-09-07T02:23:16Z")
Yes, it’s not enough to simply say you’ve never been the victim of a sexual assault. You’re required to bow reverently to everyone who says they have. Isn’t this a sticky? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/10 "2011-09-07T02:32:29Z")
I imagine that it probably is on your end, given your tendency toward self-gratification vs. actual content. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/11 "2011-09-07T02:43:31Z")
Sorry, have we met? ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/12 "2011-09-07T02:45:20Z")
This calls for kung-fu fight. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/13 "2011-09-07T02:45:35Z")
Yes, I’m sorry. I was just off to the side there a moment ago when you whiffed on that joke? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/14 "2011-09-07T03:04:47Z")
One of us has hit a dosage ceiling. I think it’s you, but not enough to bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/15 "2011-09-07T03:08:56Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I imagine that it probably is on your end, given your tendency toward self-gratification vs. actual content. It beats having to finish off weird guys at the gym. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/16 "2011-09-07T03:18:52Z")
N/m ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/17 "2011-09-07T03:26:44Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > This calls for kung-fu fight. [As you wish…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhUkGIsKvn0) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/18 "2011-09-07T03:34:33Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > A hell of a lot of men won’t interact with any children under any circumstances without a female adult around. There was a thread years ago in which someone asked how many men would get involved if they saw a toddler, totally alone and wandering around a busy street obviously lost/playing where they shouldn’t be. A lot of guys said they would try to find someone to help, but wouldn’t risk picking up the child and moving them to a safer place while trying to find their parents. I’ve always said if I see something like that, perceptions be damned, there are certain things that are part of the innate human social contract, and getting a little kid who can’t really communicate with you but can move around enough to accidentally walk into traffic out of that situation is one of those things. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/19 "2011-09-07T03:45:14Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > You’re obviously aware that people are going to read this as your suggesting that when gropings, assaults and so forth happen, it’s because the victim simply doesn’t stand up for him/herself. Is that your intention? Do you actually think you could effectively “refuse” to be a part of the garden variety sexual assault? It was in response to the idea presented [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14224392&postcount=72), where the poster implies that every little girl will keep quiet about it. She says that the parents have taught the “hypothetical” little girl to “take care” and “be aware”. I have taught both my daughter and my son that their body is their own, and no one has the right to touch it if they don’t want it touched. This has come back to bite me in the ass, since my son is not a cuddler, and I can’t ever snuggle or hug him, because, hey, that’s the rules right? 😛 As a woman, I am often frustrated with stories of other women who just feel very helpless when confronted by men or some sort of professionals. I hate it in the threads about women in labor who are “forced” into medical care they don’t want, and in this case, where the assumption is that the woman has no choice but to be groped. Now, a woman may be groped, and that’s not her fault, but if anyone groped me, I’d break their hand, call them out about it, and then call the police.\* I don’t get women who appear to want to use something like this as a bludgeon against men. - - Not including something like in a dark alley after midnight in a wheelchair, or whatever, but something like the original OP, in a public gym ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/20 "2011-09-07T04:44:33Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > It was in response to the idea presented [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14224392&postcount=72), where the poster implies that every little girl will keep quiet about it. > > She says that the parents have taught the “hypothetical” little girl to “take care” and “be aware”. I have taught both my daughter and my son that their body is their own, and no one has the right to touch it if they don’t want it touched. This has come back to bite me in the ass, since my son is not a cuddler, and I can’t ever snuggle or hug him, because, hey, that’s the rules right? 😛 > > As a woman, I am often frustrated with stories of other women who just feel very helpless when confronted by men or some sort of professionals. I hate it in the threads about women in labor who are “forced” into medical care they don’t want, and in this case, where the assumption is that the woman has no choice but to be groped. Now, a woman may be groped, and that’s not her fault, but if anyone groped me, I’d break their hand, call them out about it, and then call the police.\* > > I don’t get women who appear to want to use something like this as a bludgeon against men. > > - > - Not including something like in a dark alley after midnight in a wheelchair, or whatever, but something like the original OP, in a public gym Yawn Based on the OP’s story of the original thread, there wasn’t any evidence of “groping” occurring. Accidental bumping is not groping. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452.md?page=2)