# Elbows, Come on down and finish this off. (weird guy at gym thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452 "2011-09-07T01:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/61 "2011-09-07T17:19:39Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > White, middle class, native born, over 50, support gay marriage. > > Right? That would be my guess. Emphasis on the over 50 part. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/62 "2011-09-07T17:22:25Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Since we’re anecdoting all up in this bitch ;), I just asked a few friends: > > 6 ft tall – she hasn’t had any guys grab her in public or anything like that. > > 5’11-- nothing > > 5’1-- similar experience to mine, grabbed a lot her entire life. > > 5’7-- hoots and hollers, a few grabbings but “nothing excessive” (how sad is it that _any_ qualifies as anything other than totally unacceptable?) > > 5’3-- Lots of grabbing, had a guy try to literally stick his finger up her panties in a club recently (says she was dancing with friends, he came up behind her and immediately his hand went up her dress). > > All of those women are between 24-28, btw. All are pretty girls, some more so than others, but the “hotness” distribution is all over. > > Interesting theory. Somebody needs to get all science on this. 😛 OK, this is very interesting. Hard to do a google search to find a study though. “short” AND “groping” “petite” AND “sexual assault” ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/63 "2011-09-07T17:23:20Z")
I don’t think this debate can be settled without the intervention of Spider-Man. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/64 "2011-09-07T17:24:15Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > My spidey sense would certainly be pinged if I were 15-20 yrs old and some 30ish guy shoulder bumped me in the gym. Even now it would make me uncomfortable. That’s strange behavior on its own. Even moreso when considering the teen girl/ older guy dynamic. > > **Diosa’s** post really rings true to me. When reading this thread, I was surprised to read that some women were never groped. I just assumed most women would have been groped at least once since it has happened to me more than once. I dress fairly conservatively and tend to mind my own business so I don’t understand. As I was reading the thread I considered the possibility that I’m small, then disregarded it. Now, here, **Diosa** is saying that there was a study showing that small women tend to be targeted. Very interesting. I also want to say that I had more issues when I was a teen than when I was in my 20’s even though I think I was much more attractive when I got older. I am 5’3", small build. But, I’ve always carried myself confidently, even if I felt uncertain inside. Particularly in a place where I might be wary, like the aforementioned dark alley in a wheelchair space. Although I generally would avoid that. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/65 "2011-09-07T17:24:23Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > That would be my guess. Emphasis on the over 50 part. K. But I’m 25 and my experience is one where I’ve been physically harassed plenty of times. So, either you’re just trying to slyly dig at her for being (or seeming) old or you really believe this is something that only happened in the 60s and 70s. Which it clearly still happens (I mean, unless you think I’m making it all up, which knowing the Dope, is a possible position to have too). > [@Sateryn76](#): > > I am 5’3", small build. > > But, I’ve always carried myself confidently, even if I felt uncertain inside. Particularly in a place where I might be wary, like the aforementioned dark alley in a wheelchair space. Although I generally would avoid that. It’s interesting because most people would describe me as overly-confident if anything 🙂 and I do pay special attention to making myself as physically “strong” as possible in the scary situations you’ve described, but yeah. I’d definitely say there’s a relation between me letting my guard down and this stuff happening. Which really, is what **Elbows** was saying. It’s not that we should all be OMG SCARED of men, just that we should be aware. And you’re intentionally aware in certain situations. Why? It’s smart. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/66 "2011-09-07T17:25:17Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I don’t think this debate can be settled without the intervention of Spider-Man. Why’s it gotta be Spider-MAN, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/67 "2011-09-07T17:36:10Z")
I think it also has a lot to do with where you hang out. You mentioned spending a lot of time at bars and getting groped occasionally there. I’m female, 5’6", have only been to a bar once or twice in my 43 years, and I’ve never been groped. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/68 "2011-09-07T17:39:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I am 5’3", small build. > > But, I’ve always carried myself confidently, even if I felt uncertain inside. Particularly in a place where I might be wary, like the aforementioned dark alley in a wheelchair space. Although I generally would avoid that. Yeah, so clearly the women it happens to, just aren’t as strong as you, and deserve it. Here’s a clue, I’m no demure, scared flower. I have hitchhiked to Dawson City from Toronto, with another girl. I have traveled the third world alone. I have visited many places that people would consider too dangerous, confident I could look out for myself, and I was right. How did I do all this? By drawing on my personal experience and paying attention to my spidey sense. If some man wants to be all butthurt because some woman ‘senses’ something not in evidence, and decides to err on the side of caution, let him. I could care. If he wants to raise his children to ignore their own spidey sense, go for it. I’ll keep on doing what works for me. The men I know don’t seem at all threatened by this stance, and, in fact embrace it. They don’t seem to feel it somehow threatens or slurs all men. One man even said to me, it’s easy to embrace this view if you’ve never done anything that comes close to the line, not so much if you have. I know little about being a man so I don’t know how much validity that view would have. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/69 "2011-09-07T17:40:27Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > I think it also has a lot to do with where you hang out. You mentioned spending a lot of time at bars and getting groped occasionally there. I’m female, 5’6", have only been to a bar once or twice in my 43 years, and I’ve never been groped. I don’t disagree with that, but I’d say my distribution of fondlings are equal between bars/ clubs and places like grocery stores, malls, my office, blah blah blah. When I was a teenager, I never went to parties, clubs, or anything like that- so all those times were certainly not due to environment. As an example: one of my office locations is on a shared floor- lots of offices for different businesses that share secretary/ admin staff. A month or two ago, I was walking down the hall and one of the lawyers (!!!) from one of the firms on the floor who I had never talked to walked up next to me, leaned into my ear, and said, “I would fuck the shit out of you” while gracing his hand against my ass. This is the shit that happens to me. And I was wearing a business suit, not a club dress. Now, when I was a teenager, I would have meekly ran off and wondered what I did to deserve that. As an adult, I stopped dead in my tracks, turned toward him, and said, “Are you fucking kidding me?” Rolled my eyes in disgust, and walked away. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/70 "2011-09-07T17:41:22Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > I think it also has a lot to do with where you hang out. You mentioned spending a lot of time at bars and getting groped occasionally there. Not in my case. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/71 "2011-09-07T17:51:21Z")
Two things: **elbows** - I was never groped as a 12 year old, 16 year old, 18 year old, etc. Rode on buses and elevators with strange men, no groping to be had. Maybe I was very funny looking. **Sateryn76** - I _HAVE_ been groped as an adult and it had nothing at all to do with not standing up for myself, being intimidated by men or being made to be afraid of being a woman - it had to do with one dork on a bus. And believe me, if he had reached out and grabbed me, I would have decked him, but he didn’t - it was more like an insidious hand/leg creep where at first you think you’re imagining it and next thing you know _GROPEAGE INSUES_. Seriously, dude was subtle. However, I rode the bus to work daily for 3 years and this only happened one time, so I think it’s grossly unfair that the thousand or so guys I sat beside on the bus are being demonized because of one creepy douche. I also think that whole other thread was bizarre, and that the shoulder bumping thing was bizarre. Like maybe the guy read a ‘How to Meet Women’ brochure that suggested ‘accidentally’ bumping into woman (or whoever) to provide an opening for a conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/72 "2011-09-07T17:53:16Z")
I’m a female and I have a young daughter who I’m trying to teach to trust her instincts when it comes to such situations. BUT… I would be totally against mentioning to the manager that there was someone in a gym who was doing nothing wrong, but just struck me as vaguely odd. Inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/73 "2011-09-07T17:53:53Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Yeah, so clearly the women it happens to, just aren’t as strong as you, and deserve it. > > Here’s a clue, I’m no demure, scared flower. I have hitchhiked to Dawson City from Toronto, with another girl. I have traveled the third world alone. I have visited many places that people would consider too dangerous, confident I could look out for myself, and I was right. > > How did I do all this? By drawing on my personal experience and paying attention to my spidey sense. If some man wants to be all butthurt because some woman ‘senses’ something not in evidence, and decides to err on the side of caution, let him. I could care. > > If he wants to raise his children to ignore their own spidey sense, go for it. > I’ll keep on doing what works for me. > > The men I know don’t seem at all threatened by this stance, and, in fact embrace it. They don’t seem to feel it somehow threatens or slurs all men. One man even said to me, it’s easy to embrace this view if you’ve never done anything that comes close to the line, not so much if you have. I know little about being a man so I don’t know how much validity that view would have. Negative. I’m just reporting my own personal experience. Of course, every woman (and every man!!) needs to be aware of what’s going on. But, I find it troubling that your filter seems to be automatically set on “Caution!!! Man!!!” whereas mine is set on “Hmmm…what’s the scene, here…” It must be a sad way to live. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/74 "2011-09-07T17:54:28Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > The men I know don’t seem at all threatened by this stance, and, in fact embrace it. They don’t seem to feel it somehow threatens or slurs all men. One man even said to me, it’s easy to embrace this view if you’ve never done anything that comes close to the line, not so much if you have. I know little about being a man so I don’t know how much validity that view would have. That’s one of the stupidest things said in this thread (hard to say what the guy really said, and what you understood. The lack of quotation marks emphasizes the confusion). And that’s saying something. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/75 "2011-09-07T17:56:23Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > \ > > But, I find it troubling that your filter seems to be automatically set on “Caution!!! Man!!!” whereas mine is set on “Hmmm…what’s the scene, here…” > > It must be a sad way to live. Well, I can’t say I’ve ever had a woman push me up against a wall and grab my tit, so my experience states that I need to be more alert around men than women. Maybe that’s not fair and maybe it’s flawed logic, but that’s the truth of the matter. Again: I don’t hate men or assume they are all trying to rape me, but I am more alert when I’m alone in an elevator with a man than a woman. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/76 "2011-09-07T17:57:07Z")
If I felt half as negatively about men generally as my ex does, I would have been afraid to leave the house. According to him a majority of men were pigs, and a frighteningly large percentage didn’t frequently rape and assault women only because they were afraid of getting caught. I don’t live in fear or assume every man is a predator (although I think a good 15% at least of men are repeatedly victimizing girls and women), but I am very cautious and I trust my instincts. Many, many times, a man acting just slightly ‘off’ socially has put me on edge, and I have later found out that my intuitive feelings that he is not to be trusted were justified. Many times also I have had that feeling about a man and have never had any proof that he has done anything wrong beyond making me uncomfortable. However I don’t feel that me judging him as ‘creepy’ and keeping my distance accordingly, has done him any harm. Take it from me, there are a lot of guys who large groups of women agree amongst themselves are ‘creepy’ without them grabbing boobs etc, and yet the larger social reputations of these men are generally perfectly healthy and no one ruins his life with false rape accusations. We are all free to dislike or distrust people for no concrete reason, aren’t we? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/77 "2011-09-07T18:15:10Z")
Gentlemen, I would like to give you a little advice from my current husband on how to avoid being perceived as a male creep/rapists. Before saying or doing anything or after accidentally saying or doing something to any female ask yourself how would you feel if a more physically powerful man acted the same to you in a prison cell. He has followed this advice most of his life and has never been remotely accused of rape or improper conduct. And rhubarbarin considering that a woman is overwhelmingly more likely to be physically victimized by a man rather than by another woman I don’t consider your distrust without concrete reason. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/78 "2011-09-07T18:16:18Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I don’t disagree with that, but I’d say my distribution of fondlings are equal between bars/ clubs and places like grocery stores, malls, my office, blah blah blah. When I was a teenager, I never went to parties, clubs, or anything like that- so all those times were certainly not due to environment. > > As an example: one of my office locations is on a shared floor- lots of offices for different businesses that share secretary/ admin staff. A month or two ago, I was walking down the hall and one of the lawyers (!!!) from one of the firms on the floor who I had never talked to walked up next to me, leaned into my ear, and said, “I would fuck the shit out of you” while gracing his hand against my ass. > > This is the shit that happens to me. And I was wearing a business suit, not a club dress. > > Now, when I was a teenager, I would have meekly ran off and wondered what I did to deserve that. As an adult, I stopped dead in my tracks, turned toward him, and said, “Are you fucking kidding me?” Rolled my eyes in disgust, and walked away. That is bizarre. But, why didn’t you report it to your HR, and the HR of his firm, right after you punched him in the gut? Maybe even the Bar for your county? In the linked thread, people are telling the OP to report a weird guy to management. But it’s okay not to report the guy who clearly has violated all sorts of professional, social and legal guidelines? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/79 "2011-09-07T18:18:22Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Gentlemen, I would like to give you a little advice from my current husband on how to avoid being perceived as a male creep/rapists. Before saying or doing anything or after accidentally saying or doing something to any female ask yourself how would you feel if a more physically powerful man acted the same to you in a prison cell. He’s followed this advice most of his life and has never been remotely accused of rape or improper conduct. Before saying or doing anything, your husband thinks about getting raped in prison? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/80 "2011-09-07T18:19:15Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Here’s a clue, I’m no demure, scared flower. I have hitchhiked to Dawson City from Toronto, with another girl. I have traveled the third world alone. Clutching your mace can in a white-knuckled grip as the swarthy, testosterone-mad resort employee/potential rapist invades your personal space and threateningly offers you a piña colada. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452.md?page=5)