# Elbows, Come on down and finish this off. (weird guy at gym thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452 "2011-09-07T01:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/81 "2011-09-07T18:32:59Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Negative. I’m just reporting my own personal experience. > > Of course, every woman (and every man!!) needs to be aware of what’s going on. > > But, I find it troubling that your filter seems to be automatically set on “Caution!!! Man!!!” whereas mine is set on “Hmmm…what’s the scene, here…” > > It must be a sad way to live. Perhaps, but you stay alive that way, rather than dying in pain or living with traumatic psychological and physical scars. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/82 "2011-09-07T18:36:57Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Before saying or doing anything, your husband thinks about getting raped in prison? Probably, he’s never done hard penal time, but he has been arrested in the United States and other places, such as Mexico, and has no desire to experience that aspect of life again. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/83 "2011-09-07T18:43:47Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > That is bizarre. > > But, why didn’t you report it to your HR, and the HR of his firm, right after you punched him in the gut? Maybe even the Bar for your county? > > In the linked thread, people are telling the OP to report a weird guy to management. But it’s okay not to report the guy who clearly has violated all sorts of professional, social and legal guidelines? Fear of reprisals immediately pops into my mind. Let’s face it going to HR doesn’t guarantee anything is going to happen. You can get a lawyer and sue the bastards, but that takes time and money which many people don’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/84 "2011-09-07T18:54:14Z")
I’ve heard it said many times on this board that HR isn’t for the benefit of the employee, but for the company. What is HR going to do about a lawyer for ANOTHER FIRM? This guy doesn’t work in the same company! ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/85 "2011-09-07T18:55:44Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’ve heard it said many times on this board that HR isn’t for the benefit of the employee, but for the company. What is HR going to do about a lawyer for ANOTHER FIRM? This guy doesn’t work in the same company! Right, which is why I included the other firm’s HR, and the Bar. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/86 "2011-09-07T19:20:58Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Right, which is why I included the other firm’s HR, and the Bar. Bwah? You think the _Bar Association_ is going to give a crap that a lawyer propositioned some women who works in the same building as he does??? Sanction him? For what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/87 "2011-09-07T19:25:26Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Bwah? You think the _Bar Association_ is going to give a crap that a lawyer propositioned some women who works in the same building as he does??? Sanction him? For what, exactly? The Bar generally tracks these sorts of things (in addition to straight up legal complaints) and if the file gets big enough, something will be done - usually a warning from the ethics committee, with more to come if the complaints continue. I don’t know about you local Bar, but ours does take ethics seriously. At least, some ethics - in NW Indiana, they seem to turn a blind eye to ethical violations like bribery. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/88 "2011-09-07T19:29:42Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > That is bizarre. > > But, why didn’t you report it to your HR, and the HR of his firm, right after you punched him in the gut? Maybe even the Bar for your county? > > In the linked thread, people are telling the OP to report a weird guy to management. But it’s okay not to report the guy who clearly has violated all sorts of professional, social and legal guidelines? You’re right: clearly, I was in the wrong here. He owns his own law firm and I am the VP of our family business. Who, exactly, should I report him to? My dad? I’m a grown woman, I don’t need my father intervening when a douchebag acts like a perv to me, even if my dad does own the business. If I worked in a big business environment, of course I would report him to the appropriate people, but I don’t, so I can’t. Instead, I’ll call him a douche bag and never, ever refer him any business. I’ll also tell all the office staff (who I’m friends with) exactly what he did so they can be wary of Creepo-5000, Esq. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/89 "2011-09-07T19:33:05Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s one of the stupidest things said in this thread Really? Stupider than these beauties? “Clutching your mace can in a white-knuckled grip as the swarthy, testosterone-mad resort employee/potential rapist invades your personal space and threateningly offers you a piña colada.” ----Um, no, just using my painfully acquired spidey sense to keep myself safe. What’s your problem with that exactly? "your filter seems to be automatically set on “Caution!!! Man!!!” -----No, I just wouldn’t over ride my own sensing that something wasn’t right and be cautious. Do you even see a difference? “But, I’ve always carried myself confidently, even if I felt uncertain inside.” -----Clearly, young girls who do get groped are just not as clever as you. Lucky you. “She was never groped, or assaulted during her tween or teen years. There is one data point.” ------Is anyone supposed to take this seriously? One data point? “I have, OTOH, stood up for myself, refused to be intimidated by a man, and refused to be made afraid of being a woman.” ------Well, bully for you! I’m not afraid of being a woman, but I’m not so stupid as to over ride my own spidey sense. “Based on the OP’s story of the original thread, there wasn’t any evidence of “groping” occurring.” ------Groping was unrelated to the OPs story. That was clear, in the other thread and in this thread. “How old are you?” ------Seriously, does it get stupider than this? “Bollocks. First off I didn’t pit you,…” ------sigh, looks around, seems like we’re in the pit, of course, I could be wrong! It seems to me that there’s a whole boat load of stupid in this thread. I’m still not getting how it’s a threat to all men, if someone chooses to follow their gut feeling, or spidey sense, and not get in the elevator, or comment on behaviour that made them uneasy. For the like, zillionth time, I never suggested she judge him, accuse him, have him thrown out, only speak up, that something, that was perhaps nothing, had made her feel uneasy. Not seeing that as a threat to all mankind. Nor do I understand why my view is so upsetting as to be pitted, called vile names etc, etc. This is the dope though. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/90 "2011-09-07T19:33:46Z")
I am still trying to figure out what all the fuss is about the shoulder bump. 95% of the men at my gym do the thug hug. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/91 "2011-09-07T19:37:40Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > You’re right: clearly, I was in the wrong here. > > He owns his own law firm and I am the VP of our family business. Who, exactly, should I report him to? My dad? I’m a grown woman, I don’t need my father intervening when a douchebag acts like a perv to me, even if my dad does own the business. > > If I worked in a big business environment, of course I would report him to the appropriate people, but I don’t, so I can’t. Instead, I’ll call him a douche bag and never, ever refer him any business. I’ll also tell all the office staff (who I’m friends with) exactly what he did so they can be wary of Creepo-5000, Esq. Fair enough. Did you report any of the other incidents? Say, to a bouncer or someone? And do you think it’s a good idea for the original OP to report the weird guy to the gym management? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/92 "2011-09-07T19:38:34Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Nor do I understand why my view is so upsetting as to be pitted, called vile names etc, etc. I was led to understand that it was supposed to be the thought of one of your guys. Thanks for clearing the confusion (I mean thanks for clearing the facts that there seems to be great confusion in your mind). ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/93 "2011-09-07T19:48:50Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Fair enough. > > Did you report any of the other incidents? Say, to a bouncer or someone? > > And do you think it’s a good idea for the original OP to report the weird guy to the gym management? I have and I haven’t. It’s situational. Like I said, the way I handled these things when I was younger (assuming I had done something wrong) is much different than how I handle it now (usually: causing a scene-- “Did I NOT just tell you to NOT. FUCKING. TOUCH. ME?” usually gets the attention of employees of wherever we’re at). Hell, a guy at a club once grabbed my friend while we were dancing (stuck his hand up her dress) and she turned around and decked him-- that also got the attention of the club staff. Here’s the thing though: no matter how many times we make a scene or report it or ignore it, it’ll continue to happen (because it isn’t like it’s the same weirdo everywhere you go). Sometimes, you just want to disrupt your night as minimally as possible. Is that right? Of course not: we should always do the noble thing and report whatever it is so at least that douchecanoe learns his lesson, but in practice, sometimes you just want to go on with your night. Or heck, sometimes reporting it does no good- maybe the person you’re telling doesn’t give a shit (maybe they’re of the attitude that a woman must have deserved it) or maybe the guy is long gone. And as I said in my original post, I didn’t see what was described in the OP of the other thread as a big deal at all. Like the OP, I too am protective when I see younger girls-- if nothing else, just because I remember that horrific feeling when bad stuff would happen from men that it was my fault (and looking back, it wasn’t), but I really don’t see anything worth reporting. Talking to people isn’t exactly a crime. The only thing I could see doing, if it really was obvious flirting on his behalf with much younger, very much uncomfortable girls would be to maybe hop on an elliptical next to them (assuming that in itself wouldn’t be creepy) and say something like, “Wow, what a fucking weirdo, right?” then have a laugh about it with them. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/94 "2011-09-07T19:51:27Z")
This thread has wandered all over the place, but I wanted to add my own personal statistics: 5’5", and I was indeed groped or harassed a few times in my teen years and early twenties. I have been to bars maybe 10 times in my whole life, dress conservatively, and certainly am no sexpot! But I was a shy, timid, uncertain teenager and predators can _smell_ that on you. I mean, I remember this one guy in college - Fred, or Fahdi (Arabic) who ignored all my friends and made a beeline to me. And he was right. I was too shy to tell him to fuck off. Sometime in later college I took a self-defense course, and that helped. But what helped mainly was just self-confidence. As I got older I stood straighter and looked people in the eyes more, challengingly. I noticed people. I have a confident walk now. And I don’t get groped or harassed anymore. If anything at all, it’s the ordinary things that happen to everyone (silly things shouted when I’m on my bike, for example). I, too, figured every woman had been groped at some point in her life and am surprised to find they haven’t. And yes, I am _aware_ of my surroundings when I am with men. That doesn’t mean I am nervous, or sensitive. I like men better than woman and hang out with men a lot. But I certainly do have a heightened sense of awareness, and I do take precautions I never would with women. If that means you all think I am going through my life in fear and terror, well, I don’t know what to tell you, other than I’m not. After a while the awareness is just second nature. I don’t even notice it. Do I feel cautious when it is midnight and I am, say, in a hotel, in an elevator, and four guys get on with me? Cautious, yes. Scared? Absolutely not. I, too, will not cease being cautious and wary. I have driven miles to meet men, alone (in public places). Dopers, even. If I get in their cars, am I to just blithely smile and never even toss a thought towards the fact that they really have me entirely in their power? I mean, how does it hurt anyone for women to be cautious? And if we’re not cautious, then people say things like, “If she wasn’t sure about him, why’d she get in his car? Why’d she get drunk with him?” Etc. We just can’t win. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/95 "2011-09-07T19:51:40Z")
All I know is, every time you use the phrase “spidey sense” you sound like an imbecile. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/96 "2011-09-07T20:10:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by elbows View Post > Nor do I understand why my view is so upsetting as to be pitted, called vile names etc, etc. > > I was led to understand that it was supposed to be the thought of one of your guys. Thanks for clearing the confusion (I mean thanks for clearing the facts that there seems to be great confusion in your mind). What you said was so stupid, was indeed said to me by a man, as I made clear. As I did not say it, I’m not going to defend it. Where did I say it was otherwise? How this relates to the surprise at my view of: following your gut, (just for **woodstockbirdybird** , who’s screen name clearly demonstrates he knows what sounds imbecilic or not!:D), and being cautious as a woman, creating so much conflict, a pitting, name calling etc, I’m not getting. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/97 "2011-09-07T20:13:44Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What you said was so stupid, was indeed said to me by a man, as I made clear. As I did not say it, I’m not going to defend it. Where did I say it was otherwise? > > How this relates to the surprise at my view of: following your gut, (just for **woodstockbirdybird** , who’s screen name clearly demonstrates he knows what sounds imbecilic or not!:D), and being cautious as a woman, creating so much conflict, a pitting, name calling etc, I’m not getting. I dont think what you said in the original “weird guy at the gym” thread was worth a pitting, if that’s what you mean. Though the whole thread was a total trainwreck. And sorry if I sounded snarky or agressive in my reply. I have no beef with you. But hysterical fears are not a good way to base your life on. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/98 "2011-09-07T20:21:58Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > And sorry if I sounded snarky or agressive in my reply. I have no beef with you. But hysterical fears are not a good way to base your life on. Seriously: who here has expressed anything remotely resembling a hysterical fear? What I have see is a lot of people who haven’t had the experiences the rest of us have had claiming that our caution or alertness is “hysterical fear”- which is silly. Being alert based on experiences in the past in similar situations is not living life in fear, cowering in your bed, afraid that all men are trying to stick their dick in you when you ride the bus. If one time, you slice your hand open while cutting open an avocado or something, you’re going to be a little more careful every time you cut open an avocado after that, right? You don’t have a hysterical fear of avocados just because you are a little more careful next time you make guacamole. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/99 "2011-09-07T20:25:08Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > I dont think what you said in the original “weird guy at the gym” thread was worth a pitting, if that’s what you mean. Though the whole thread was a total trainwreck. > > And sorry if I sounded snarky or agressive in my reply. I have no beef with you. But hysterical fears are not a good way to base your life on. Please point to a direct example of hysterical fear in one of these threads. I mean, come on - normally I don’t care about the word hysterical but in this one case I’d like to point you to its roots. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/100 "2011-09-07T20:28:02Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Seriously: who here has expressed anything remotely resembling a hysterical fear? What I have see is a lot of people who haven’t had the experiences the rest of us have had claiming that our caution or alertness is “hysterical fear”- which is silly. Being alert based on experiences in the past in similar situations is not living life in fear, cowering in your bed, afraid that all men are trying to stick their dick in you when you ride the bus. Well, it’s like being mugged by members of (put whatever ethnic group you want here), you might not feel very confident any time a situation where you could be mugged and members of the “previously flagged” ethnic group are nearby. It’s not irreasonable fear, but it’s gonna hover towards irrational fear if you dont get a grip on it, “on the chance of”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452.md?page=6)