# Elbows, Come on down and finish this off. (weird guy at gym thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452 "2011-09-07T01:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/101 "2011-09-07T20:30:32Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Well, it’s like being mugged by members of (put whatever ethnic group you want here), you might not feel very confident any time a situation where you could be mugged and members of the “previously flagged” ethnic group are nearby. It’s not irreasonable fear, but it’s gonna hover towards irrational fear if you dont get a grip on it, “on the chance of”. Or like cutting yourself while making guacamole and just being a little more careful next time you make it. If you scream and burst into tears every time you see an avocado, that’s an irrational fear. If you just take a little extra next time you slice open an avocado, that’s actually smart. . . not irrational at all. And no woman here has in any way expressed a HYSTERICAL fear of men. It’s all a perfectly rational alertness. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/102 "2011-09-07T20:30:34Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Please point to a direct example of hysterical fear in one of these threads. I mean, come on - normally I don’t care about the word hysterical but in this one case I’d like to point you to its roots. Ok, I wasnt using hysterical in the sense that you think I did. Thought the meaning was pretty much unisex now, not “woman only irrational” fear. Swap it for irrational if you want, since it’s what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/103 "2011-09-07T21:08:46Z")
Seems like a good opportunity to reflect on a past thread about creepy behavior, in which a female poster was asking for advice following a [weird encounter with a pest control guy.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=612433&highlight=creep) Why am I bringing up this thread? Because I distinctly [remember](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13920085&postcount=59) pointing out that women are more apt to call certain behavior creepy than men are because of past experiences, and yet we’re also more likely to have our opinions dismissed as hypersensitive and hysterical. This thread attests to this very real thing. Strangely, my assertion in that thread was countered with the claim that women fail to stick up for themselves because they are taught to be too nice, and so they let creeps get away with too much. Supposedly in contrast to men, who are raised to be straight talkin tough dudes who aren’t afraid to speak up when assailed with creepiness. Unsurprisingly, though, I see more women in the current thread(s) who are saying the correct response is to say something (either to management or to the guy) and I see more men saying to ignore it, it’s harmelss social ineptitude, blah blah. All of this is to say, can we please let the whole “women are too nice” thing die already? Because the evidence (at least on this board) does not bear it out. If anything, women as a group are more prepared to go to battle at the first sign of creepiness than anyone else on the planet, because we experience it more often than anyone else and get sensitive to it. The problem is that we’re dismissed as silly and hypersensitive unless something egregious happens, and then when it does happen, paradoxically, we’re called to the carpet for not doing something about it sooner. To call it a catch 22 would be an understatement. You can only laugh. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/104 "2011-09-07T21:48:06Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I don’t really have a dog in the fight about the other thread- truthfully, I still haven’t read beyond the OP because it did seem a bit silly to me. > > That said, I find this discussion about women getting or not getting groped is an interesting one. I consider Miss \*\* Nashiitashii\*\* a friend 🙂 and I really do find it surprising that, being the hot chick she is, she’s never once been felt up by a dude when she wasn’t wanting it. Why is that surprising to me? Because I can list off, without hesitation, at least a dozen instances where strange men have followed me through stores and to my car, grabbed a tit, grabbed my ass, stuck their hand up my skirt or down my shirt, pushed me against a wall, kissed me against my will, or been otherwise physically inappropriate and imposing toward me (not all those things at once, of course- those are all individual weird things). Okay, I want to make this just a little clearer: **as a tween and teenager, I never experienced unwanted sexual behavior from folks**. Once I was in college, it happened, but without much frequency. Where did it happen? Mostly at the gay nightclub, and from gay men who were impressed with my breasts, but not sexually interested in them. Occasionally since then, it’s been from guys who mistake me not immediately going “Ew, get away!” as an invitation to flirt with me and try to get in my pants. > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Since we’re anecdoting all up in this bitch ;), I just asked a few friends: > > 6 ft tall – she hasn’t had any guys grab her in public or anything like that. > > 5’11-- nothing > > 5’1-- similar experience to mine, grabbed a lot her entire life. > > 5’7-- hoots and hollers, a few grabbings but “nothing excessive” (how sad is it that _any_ qualifies as anything other than totally unacceptable?) > > 5’3-- Lots of grabbing, had a guy try to literally stick his finger up her panties in a club recently (says she was dancing with friends, he came up behind her and immediately his hand went up her dress). > > All of those women are between 24-28, btw. All are pretty girls, some more so than others, but the “hotness” distribution is all over. > > Interesting theory. Somebody needs to get all science on this. 😛 My theory is that a lot of guys are less willing to try blatant behavior in case it’s unwanted and they have to face a woman who could potentially kick their ass. 😉 In all seriousness, I get messed with less for a number of factors: I’m tall and muscular; I look folks in the eye more often than not; I spent a lot of time hanging out with guys when I was younger, so I tend to act like one of the guys; I greet coworkers (especially men) with a firm handshake and look them right in the eyes; I’m aware of my surroundings, but not in an obvious “OMG, there might be attackers!” way; I don’t frequent bars and nightclubs where groping is super common; I let folks know right away when something’s not appropriate or makes me feel uncomfortable. Honestly, I think the fact that I’m the height of the average American male and have a little extra muscle is probably one of the biggest factors, but being confident and outgoing helps a lot. It doesn’t mean that no man is ever creepy, but it means that I encounter fewer creepy guys and tend to let those creepy guys know they’re being creepy right away. As for the situation that started this whole secondary thread, is it really necessary for the Anti-Pedo Bear Brigade to get involved if the ladies that the guy at the gym was interacting with don’t look physically uncomfortable with his behavior? What if they’re friends having a conversation? Then your “involvement” is actively being a jerk and potentially banning the guy from the gym for no reason whatsoever. I personally think that the original OP in the first thread was being nosier than necessary. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/105 "2011-09-07T21:57:02Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Ditto, when your own spidey sense pings over the undo attention your 6yr old is garnering from that preteen boy at the playground. After all, he’s not actually done anything, you’ve just got an uncomfortable feeling. Of course, you’ll just leave them together until ‘something’ actually happens. > > Or is it okay for you to do it when it’s yours you’re protecting, but not okay for women, who’ve had actual life experience to go on?" I would say its not ok for anyone. We should all try to maintain a common sense level of awareness that doesn’t take your personal experiences into account, so that we don’t over or under react. Ask yourself this: if 100 random people were in my situation, how would the majority react? Let yours or my 6yr old get undo attention from a preteen, its probably nothing. If I were a parent, I’d force myself not to be overly paranoid > [@elbows](#): > > Don’t think a 12yr old getting into a enclosed space, alone with any man, should ever, ever consider safety an issue? > > I hate to tell you but it kind of goes contrary to what everyone teaches their kids, including schools and grandparents. No, its just an elevator. The chances are too remote for something bad to happen. Err on the side of the plausible. > [@elbows](#): > > But I’m sure you’re right. Better a tween gets groped than any man ever feel slighted that a girl wouldn’t get into an elevator with him That’s exactly right. How many hundreds of men do you think she’ll get into elevators with in her time as a tween, especially if she lives in an apartment with elevators. The kind of phobia and offense, and the subsequent anger and resentment far outweighs one grope > [@elbows](#): > > It’s not me who sees things as black and white here. > > Speaking up, in this instance, may have resulted in no more than the owner saying, “Yeah, he gives off a funny vibe, but I’ve watched him, and I’m pretty certain he’s just socially inept” or even something similar, only a couple of weeks later. Or it could result in the owner taking your word for it since he doesn’t want to get sued and kicking the guy out for some made up reason. If he was simply socially awkward, how do you think that will affect his thinking of himself for the rest of his life? Why not try it this way? Let him be creepy. So what if its creepy? A little creepiness never hurt anyone. The odds of harm coming from an overreaction to the creepiness is more than the harm coming from allowing him to be creepy. The worst thing that can happen if people ignored him is that a couple people feel odd around him, and either voluntarily leave or don’t come to the gym as much. The worst thing to happen if he’s reported is he gets kicked out and feels ashamed and resentful for something he’s innocent or ignorant of. Its a gym, not like he can corner them at a treadmill and grope away. If that happens, I’m sure there are plenty of people ready to beat his ass for sexual assault ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/106 "2011-09-07T22:09:06Z")
“The kind of phobia and offense, and the subsequent anger and resentment far outweighs one grope” That is a subjective judgment, and one Im pretty sure many people would disagree with, particularly people who have actually experienced them. Nor does any of the actions described in this thread describe ‘offense’ or ‘phobia’ in my view, most of this is a disagreement about risk management with people trying to use emotive terms to try and make their case sound stronger than it really is. Otara ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/107 "2011-09-07T22:20:18Z")
Wow. Looking at some of the posts in here, it’s no wonder so many females are helpless… ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/108 "2011-09-07T22:23:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Nor does any of the actions described in this thread describe ‘offense’ or ‘phobia’ in my view, most of this is a disagreement about risk management with people trying to use emotive terms to try and make their case sound stronger than it really is. I think you may have won this thread! Very well said! ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/109 "2011-09-07T23:45:17Z")
> [@nashiitashii](#): > > As for the situation that started this whole secondary thread, is it really necessary for the Anti-Pedo Bear Brigade to get involved if the ladies that the guy at the gym was interacting with don’t look physically uncomfortable with his behavior? What if they’re friends having a conversation? Then your “involvement” is actively being a jerk and potentially banning the guy from the gym for no reason whatsoever. I personally think that the original OP in the first thread was being nosier than necessary. I can accept that I was being nosy, but I did think the ladies looked uncomfortable. The two that got bumped looked startled, and immediately moved away. The one he was talking to got off the machine she had just started on and also moved away. I still think the guy is weird, but I’m not going to do anything about it. If he keeps it up, someone more immediately involved than me will tell the management at some point. If he gets the message that people don’t like being bumped and stops on his own, problem solved. To be more on topic for this thread, I’m 5’9", and I’ve been groped twice in my life, once as a teen and once as an adult. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/110 "2011-09-07T23:47:09Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > “The kind of phobia and offense, and the subsequent anger and resentment far outweighs one grope” > > That is a subjective judgment, and one Im pretty sure many people would disagree with, particularly people who have actually experienced them. > > Nor does any of the actions described in this thread describe ‘offense’ or ‘phobia’ in my view, most of this is a disagreement about risk management with people trying to use emotive terms to try and make their case sound stronger than it really is. > > Otara If I wasn’t clear, I meant the phobia and offense on the part of the men. I will admit I don’t know how deep it goes or how many suffer from it, but from some of the responses in this topic, the numbers aren’t zero and needs to be taken into account. Creating in men a phobia about how they cannot be alone with children, especially female children, is more harmful, in my estimation, than a grope. Especially when you have some Dopers here commenting on how it affects them personally, then it seems a problem was created when there need not be in the first place. In other topics, people have mentioned that they try not to be alone with kids for fear of false accusations. That is not healthy at all. Maybe I see that effect more than the effect of women traumatized by groping, but I can only think that there is an exaggeration on the part of the women that is not as prevalent on the part of the men, and that such a “creepiness” factor should be ignored by all who see it because its ultimately harmless. Even if the guy eventually turned out to be a harmful deviate, busting his actions now would do nothing to stop him in the future. He gets kicked out, so what? He’ll go to another gym where someone might not speak out? Meanwhile, allowing him to start uncomfortable conversations with women he doesn’t have the opportunity to assault is just an annoyance to the women and nothing more ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/111 "2011-09-08T00:46:12Z")
If someone chooses not to be around me, thats ultimately their choice. If I find that upsetting, its generally up to me to find ways to deal with that, rather than expecting them to change. I dont find it that difficult myself, because I dont take it personally when someone is cautious of me as a stranger. And as to the idea that nothing should be done about someone harassing people because he might do it somewhere else anyhow, I guess all I can say is I disagree. Otara ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/112 "2011-09-08T01:22:44Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > I still think the guy is weird, but I’m not going to do anything about it. If he keeps it up, someone more immediately involved than me will tell the management at some point. If he gets the message that people don’t like being bumped and stops on his own, problem solved. I hate to tell you, but I don’t think management would do anything about someone who is “accidentally” bumping into women and talking to them. No one would do anything about that because that’s just ridiculous. I think we have different definitions for the term accidental - perhaps there is something that happened that you aren’t telling us. Some of you obviously don’t understand what groping actually is. Someone accidentally bumping into you is not groping nor is it harassment. Now, onto the next issue… Talking to people is a right that people have - sorry. Simply talking to someone is not against any rules. I’m sorry, but people have a right to socialize and people also have a right to ignore. If you don’t want anyone talking to you, ignore that person. Simple as that. This has been blown way out of proportion. And yes, you are being extremely nosey. Mind your own business. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/113 "2011-09-08T01:27:58Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Meanwhile, allowing him to start uncomfortable conversations with women he doesn’t have the opportunity to assault is just an annoyance to the women and nothing more This is exactly what I’ve been trying to convey. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/114 "2011-09-08T01:32:08Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Yeah, so clearly the women it happens to, just aren’t as strong as you, and deserve it. > > Here’s a clue, I’m no demure, scared flower. I have hitchhiked to Dawson City from Toronto, with another girl. I have traveled the third world alone. I have visited many places that people would consider too dangerous, confident I could look out for myself, and I was right. > > How did I do all this? By drawing on my personal experience and paying attention to my spidey sense. If some man wants to be all butthurt because some woman ‘senses’ something not in evidence, and decides to err on the side of caution, let him. I could care. > > If he wants to raise his children to ignore their own spidey sense, go for it. > I’ll keep on doing what works for me. > > The men I know don’t seem at all threatened by this stance, and, in fact embrace it. They don’t seem to feel it somehow threatens or slurs all men. One man even said to me, it’s easy to embrace this view if you’ve never done anything that comes close to the line, not so much if you have. I know little about being a man so I don’t know how much validity that view would have. You wrote so much and at the same time you have said absolutely nothing. You are proving the point of living in a black and white world. Bravo! ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/115 "2011-09-08T02:07:26Z")
> [@OneMissedPost](#): > > I hate to tell you, but I don’t think management would do anything about someone who is “accidentally” bumping into women and talking to them. No one would do anything about that because that’s just ridiculous. I think we have different definitions for the term accidental - perhaps there is something that happened that you aren’t telling us. > > Some of you obviously don’t understand what groping actually is. Someone accidentally bumping into you is not groping nor is it harassment. > > Now, onto the next issue… Talking to people is a right that people have - sorry. Simply talking to someone is not against any rules. I’m sorry, but people have a right to socialize and people also have a right to ignore. If you don’t want anyone talking to you, ignore that person. Simple as that. This has been blown way out of proportion. > > And yes, you are being extremely nosey. Mind your own business. It wasn’t accidental bumping. I’ve been pretty clear about that. I never said he was groping anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/116 "2011-09-08T02:56:23Z")
“Simply talking to someone is not against any rules. I’m sorry, but people have a right to socialize and people also have a right to ignore.” That kind of works both ways - people have a right to talk to management too, and they also have a right not to ignore things and to say someone is being a problem for them. And management has a right to decide what their customer base is, and whether to give feedback to anyone they’re concerned about having an effect on other customers or even ultimately decide they dont want them as a customer. There will never be complete agreement on when someone should talk to management about a concern they have like this. In my view this situation can most easily be handled by letting people use their individual judgment rather than worrying overmuch if someone has different standards to your own. Otara ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/117 "2011-09-08T03:14:26Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > In my view this situation can most easily be handled by letting people use their individual judgment rather than worrying overmuch if someone has different standards to your own. > > Otara Well, I become worried when people believe they have “spidey-senses.” Makes me wonder, sometimes… ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/118 "2011-09-08T03:49:58Z")
Well if noone or no situation has ever given the creeps, you’ve done well I guess. Getting the creeps too often, or thinking thats enough by itself to get someone kicked out a club or that kind of thing, I understand that. But saying it should always be ignored and you’re not even allowed to avoid getting into a lift with someone you have a really bad feeling about, thats a bit extreme for me. Sometimes we react non-verbally more rapidly than we can intellectually identify why we’re having that reaction. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/119 "2011-09-08T03:51:45Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > “Simply talking to someone is not against any rules. I’m sorry, but people have a right to socialize and people also have a right to ignore.” > > That kind of works both ways - people have a right to talk to management too, and they also have a right not to ignore things and to say someone is being a problem for them. And management has a right to decide what their customer base is, and whether to give feedback to anyone they’re concerned about having an effect on other customers or even ultimately decide they dont want them as a customer. > > There will never be complete agreement on when someone should talk to management about a concern they have like this. In my view this situation can most easily be handled by letting people use their individual judgment rather than worrying overmuch if someone has different standards to your own. > > Otara The thing is, Mr. Shoulder Bump was talking to women who walked away from him, and he followed them. People DON’T have the right to bother other people. And apparently Mr. Bumpy was annoying more than one person. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452/120 "2011-09-08T04:04:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The problem is that we’re dismissed as silly and hypersensitive unless something egregious happens, and then when it does happen, paradoxically, we’re called to the carpet for not doing something about it sooner. Oh yes. The helpful lad who doesn’t want to blame the victim, but have women ever considered being more vigilant, not walking home late at night, wearing revealing clothing or talking to strangers? It might sound crazy, but have they ever thought of comparing themselves to shiny new automobiles being flashed in a poor neighborhood? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elbows-come-on-down-and-finish-this-off-weird-guy-at-gym-thread/595452.md?page=7)