# Election 2008: Did the Dems Learn from 2004?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 5, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813 "2007-04-05T02:17:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 13
### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813/241 "2007-04-08T01:42:41Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
And what do you think is the answer to those questions?
[/QUOTE]
I do not know. I do know that the phenomenon of people saying publicly that they hold value X and then privately doing something that clearly shows they do not hold value X, is fairly commonplace. That is why I do not know. But at least I know I don’t know, if you know what I mean.
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813/242 "2007-04-08T01:51:07Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor]
I do not know. I do know that the phenomenon of people saying publicly that they hold value X and then privately doing something that clearly shows they do not hold value X, is fairly commonplace. That is why I do not know. But at least I know I don’t know, if you know what I mean.
[/QUOTE]
So are you saying that it’s a “known, unknown” or an “unknown unknown”? Where a known unknown, is something you don’t know, but you know you don’t know it and an unknown unknown is something you don’t know, and you don’t know you don’t know it.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2007, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813/243 "2007-04-08T15:55:27Z")
Well, you go to war with the ignorance you’ve got, not the ignorance you wish you had.
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813/244 "2007-04-08T19:37:58Z")
Rummy, we hardly knew ye.
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### Author:  [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813/245 "2007-04-08T21:04:29Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
Oh, yeah - \*please \* reassure me that you’re not actually hoping for another terrorist attack on the United States just because you think it might help the party you favor at the next election. Please say your “dead-ender” partisanism doesn’t really extend quite that far.
[/QUOTE]
I know I can’t expect you to be familiar with my posting history but I’m a socially liberal atheist. You fail.
Still, I agree with **Evil One** , for three reasons:
1. The GOP propaganda machine makes the Dem’s look like amateurs.
2. For whatever reason, probably due to #1, Dems are thought of as pussies and/or weak on terror/war/doing the dirty jobs.
3. The American people on the whole lack an education of history or rational thinking.
So, yes, I agree, if another terrorist attack happens it would make absolutely no sense for the American population to clutch at the GOP security blanket. I think it’s pretty dumb that they would but that’s what I think would happen.
I disagree with his idea about troops in Iraq, unless Bush flip flops from when he said that decision would be for future presidents to decide. I think we’ll still have troops there in 2010, even if they’re starting to be withdrawn (and even that would be quite the rosy picture IMO).
I’d love to see a Dem in the White House. I just have a very strong feeling it won’t be for quite awhile if Mrs. Clinton and Obama keep getting all the attention (maybe if Obama isn’t considered ‘too black’…an amusing thought but hey, maybe it could happen).
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Hey, got it from Evil One! Who has been so clearly right on so many, many topics. No, no, an approval rate of 30% is a good thing, and all these scandals just garner sympathy for the Bushiviks. And soon, soon, Wolfowitz, Perle, and Feith will be recognized as saviors of thier country! And monkeys will fly out by butt, and then they will register as Republican.
If the Dems could transfer the taint of Bush to the future nominee that would be a great way for them to win. They’re too incompetent to do that though, so Bush’s failings shouldn’t matter, for the most part, except the remnants of the Iraqi war.
The overwhelming majority of the voting population has no idea who Wolfowitz, Perle, or Feith are, I suspect.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813/246 "2007-04-08T21:19:50Z")
[QUOTE=mstay]
…1. The GOP propaganda machine makes the Dem’s look like amateurs…
[/quote]
Thats because they _are_ amatuers, for the most part. The pros go where the money is. Another Dem weakness is a paucity of ruthlessness. A weakness worthy of respect, in my estimation.
> [@](#):
>
> …3. The American people on the whole lack an education of history or rational thinking…
Who doesn’t? Governance by democratic processes is not more efficient or more effective, it is merely more just.
> [@](#):
>
> If the Dems could transfer the taint of Bush to the future nominee that would be a great way for them to win. They’re too incompetent to do that though, so Bush’s failings shouldn’t matter, for the most part, except the remnants of the Iraqi war.
Which leaves the problem of putting forth a prominent Republican candidate who is untainted, who has not exploited the Republican dominance of recent years, who didn’t solidly support a bad policy when it looked like a good bet. A Republlican with a proud history of criticizing the Bushiviks. The closest you got there is McCain, who rags on Bush for not being crazy _enough!_ Yipe!
> [@](#):
>
> …The overwhelming majority of the voting population has no idea who Wolfowitz, Perle, or Feith are, I suspect.
I wish I didn’t either.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2007, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813/247 "2007-04-08T22:44:30Z")
[QUOTE=mstay]
The overwhelming majority of the voting population has no idea who Wolfowitz, Perle, or Feith are, I suspect.
[/QUOTE]
But they know who Bush is, and that he has been in charge of national security for the past seven years.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-2008-did-the-dems-learn-from-2004/398813/248 "2007-04-08T22:49:02Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator]
Which leaves the problem of putting forth a prominent Republican candidate who is untainted, who has not exploited the Republican dominance of recent years, who didn’t solidly support a bad policy when it looked like a good bet. A Republlican with a proud history of criticizing the Bushiviks. The closest you got there is McCain, who rags on Bush for not being crazy _enough!_ Yipe!
[/QUOTE]
Hagel is closer, and he isn’t out yet.
**mstay** , I do wish you’d said you _don’t_ hope for another terrorist attack. You’re on your own with that now, pal.
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