# Election Day Omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 4, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683 "2024-11-04T20:15:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1281 "2024-11-06T18:27:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It is normal and wise for other heads of state of government to remain neutral about allies’ elections and offer generic words of congratulation upon candidates winning elections. Yeah, this. We’re in the position of having no influence over who the US elects, but still having to deal with that person. And when that person is known for holding epic grudges, step one is not going out of your way to annoy them. Every other country in the world is going to spend the next several years walking the tightrope of not annoying Trump, while also trying not to just roll over and give him everything he wants. It’s not going to be fun or easy. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1282 "2024-11-06T18:29:18Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Paraphrase of the above: _Let me explain this to you in simple terms because you’re stupid. And then please vote for my side._ Yes, exactly. While I don’t think we should call them stupid, we need to acknowledge the reality _that they are stupid_. Part of fixing that will be putting a lot more money into schools, but that won’t fix the stupid people who have already graduated. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1283 "2024-11-06T18:31:56Z")
No, I don’t understand. Why do you claim that lefty rhetoric is damaging to Dems, while ignoring the vast scale and toxicity of right wing rhetoric. Dems are not communists, nor are they drug addicts on adrenochrome or doing anything of the insanity claimed by the right. There is no comparison here. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1284 "2024-11-06T18:32:07Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > > [@Horatius](#): > > > > How to refute that? Sure, we can explain it to them, but as we’ve seen time and again, _they don’t understand the explanation_. > > Paraphrase of the above: _Let me explain this to you in simple terms because you’re stupid. And then please vote for my side._ At some point, I _have_ to conclude that if my side is failing to communicate with the _overwhelming majority_ of white people without a college education - you know, the working class people that the Democrats are supposed to represent - then that’s a problem with my side’s communication. Repeating that the root cause is that those people are stupid is _not helpful_. Unless the plan is to set up reeducation camps, we’re going to HAVE TO find a way to communicate our message to them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1285 "2024-11-06T18:34:25Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > No, I don’t understand. Why do you claim that lefty rhetoric is damaging to Dems, while ignoring the vast scale and toxicity of right wing rhetoric. Because that rhetoric is damaging to them too, and I consider that a good thing rather than a problem to be solved. For example, I disagree with Kamala Harris on plenty of things, but I wasn’t about to vote for Trump, mostly because of that toxic rhetoric (and the actions that back it up). > [@orcenio](#): > > There is no comparison here. I didn’t make one. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1286 "2024-11-06T18:36:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And much of the problem is the unwillingness to call them on it. The Democrats have spent decades trying to pander to them and it never works. Democrats have won 3 of the 7 elections in years starting with 2. They won two because they had a charismatic candidate and one because of dissatisfaction with the incumbent. This time around, they didn’t have either of those advantages. They needed to find a message that would persuade voters and they didn’t accomplish that, > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which is what his supporters _want,_ a murderous racist crusade. That’s not a persuasive message. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1287 "2024-11-06T18:37:16Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > we’re going to HAVE TO find a way to communicate our message to them. Well, yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. How do you craft a message to explain that Trump’s positions on tariffs are fundamentally flawed? We had hundreds of academics saying that, and it didn’t work. And we can have this same discussion about almost anything Trump said. Democrats need to start workshopping easy-to-understand catchphrases. That, or just become Trump and lie about everything. Oh, and btw, Trump’s “They’re eating the cats!” type nonsense is _also_ predicated on the underlying assumption that the voters are too stupid to see through the obvious lies, so enough with that. Their stupidity has already been weaponized. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1288 "2024-11-06T18:39:26Z")
Well I think you put the Dems loss on the fact that they were off putting to voters, I just cannot square this idea when the party that they voted for ran on a platform of personal vendetta and revenge. Trump used the most hateful rhetoric at all times during his political life. I don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1289 "2024-11-06T18:40:08Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Paraphrase of the above: _Let me explain this to you in simple terms because you’re stupid. And then please vote for my side._ No; they won’t under _any_ circumstances vote for the people they want to hurt and kill. And they can’t be persuaded otherwise, so there’s no point trying. Trying to persuade these people to support them - usually at the expense of their own supporters - is one of the reasons the Democrats have had more and more trouble winning elections. It never does anything but lose them votes and make them look weak and untrustworthy. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1290 "2024-11-06T18:42:34Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > People who are concerned about inflation and like what Trump had to say aren’t evil and don’t consider themselves to be stupid. They are not just stupid, they’re utter morons. They actually want prices to go down — which would only happen in a total economic collapse! And…they think Trump somehow can magically make that happen, and would have magically made the whole global inflation never happen in the first place! They are true imbeciles. All of them. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1291 "2024-11-06T18:59:54Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Yes, exactly. While I don’t think we should call them stupid, we need to acknowledge the reality _that they are stupid_. Part of fixing that will be putting a lot more money into schools, but that won’t fix the stupid people who have already graduated. At the risk of nitpicking, it’s not stupidity - it’s willful bias. I have never personally known a stupid Trump voter. To the contrary, many of them hold high positions of management, or degrees in science, literature, music, have extensive experience in challenging fields, etc. Tens of millions of Americans with college degrees voted for Trump. What most had in common was a willful slant or bias to the right. One Redditor comment stuck out to me, a woman who complained that her father, a Trump voter, called himself a “skeptic,” but what he meant by that was that he held Trump to the lowest of all evidence standards while holding the left to the highest of rigorous standards. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1292 "2024-11-06T19:00:25Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Yes, exactly. While I don’t think we should call them stupid, we need to acknowledge the reality _that they are stupid_. Part of fixing that will be putting a lot more money into schools, but that won’t fix the stupid people who have already graduated. I doubt that a strategy of _I’m not going to call you stupid, I’m just going to treat you like you’re stupid_ will be effective. And an education strategy could take up to 40 years to have an impact. Maybe the Democratic Party could try having a candidate and policies that would inspire people? Nah, that’s probably not realistic either. It certainly didn’t happen yesterday, ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1293 "2024-11-06T19:02:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; they won’t under _any_ circumstances vote for the people they want to hurt and kill. And they can’t be persuaded otherwise, so there’s no point trying. You never present any evidence for these assertions… > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Trying to persuade these people to support them - usually at the expense of their own supporters - is one of the reasons the Democrats have had more and more trouble winning elections. It never does anything but lose them votes and make them look weak and untrustworthy. Then why did Trump win while doing _slightly worse_ with white voters but _much better_ with Hispanic voters and _slightly better_ with black voters? Are all these people just self hating racists? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1294 "2024-11-06T19:04:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Then why did Trump win while doing _slightly worse_ with white voters but _much better_ with Hispanic voters and _slightly better_ with black voters? Are all these people just self hating racists? No, they just think the leopards won’t eat _their_ face. Watch those same black and Hispanic Trump voters be surprised when _they_ end up targeted in the persecution too. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1295 "2024-11-06T19:04:48Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Maybe the Democratic Party could try having a candidate and policies that would inspire people? Nah, that’s probably not realistic either. How do you “inspire” people who heard, “They’re eating the cats!”, and thought, “Yeah, he’s got my vote!”? Should the Democrats just adopt all of Trump’s positions, minus the cat-eating ones? ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1296 "2024-11-06T19:05:35Z")
I think the majority of voters, and a larger majority of voters on the right, decide who to vote for based on how the person makes them feel. They build a rationale for their decision after having made it. This is why Trump is so unsinkable. If he appeals to a voter and something comes out that the voter doesn’t like, if the voter can still come up with a rationale for supporting him, they will do that. Hence “he was joking,” “he won’t really do that,” “liberal media/fake news,” etc. Very few people are so shaken by a revelation that they can’t rationalize it away. > [@Babale](#): > > This message is _factually accurate_, but it seems that Democrats find it impossible to communicate. See above. That factually accurate message takes more than a sentence to explain, and if one isn’t paying close attention, one might think that support for tightening border security and deporting people who are not here legally is being tarred as racist. It’s easier for people who like Trump to just accept the assertion that she’s the one who let them all in. And who a person likes or feels good about as a candidate can definitely be influenced by unconscious factors like bias. So the voter might be voting as they are for racist or sexist reasons, but they won’t see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1297 "2024-11-06T19:05:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Then why did Trump win while doing _slightly worse_ with white voters but _much better_ with Hispanic voters and _slightly better_ with black voters? Are all these people just self hating racists? Because to many people, religion trumps race. Hispanics are by and large religious and socially conservative. Many of them are conservative/religious to the point where they’d even vote for a racist guy like Trump if he furthers their religious views. To be sure, they don’t _like_ his racism, but they are willing to overlook it in the name of the bigger cause. I used to attend a Chinese church in Texas. Many of the people there supported Trump despite every bad thing he said about China and Kung Flu and whatnot - because he was in line with their religious views. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1298 "2024-11-06T19:07:26Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > I doubt that a strategy of _I’m not going to call you stupid, I’m just going to treat you like you’re stupid_ will be effective. And an education strategy could take up to 40 years to have an impact. Maybe the Democratic Party could try having a candidate and policies that would inspire people? Nah, that’s probably not realistic either. It certainly didn’t happen yesterday, Yeah, we need to radically shift strategy. We need to focus on the issues that people care about - in this election, that was immigration and the economy. And unfortunately, _even if true_, the message “we are actually doing great in these two areas” doesn’t resonate with people. It seems like social issues, even federal protection of abortion rights, are losing issues. And honestly, that was surprising to me. Multiple states went for Trump while also voting to protect abortion at the state level. That should tell us something. I didn’t expect that, but I’m learning from it. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1299 "2024-11-06T19:08:35Z")
Because people find bullies hot and identify with them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683/1300 "2024-11-06T19:09:28Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > How do you “inspire” people who heard, “They’re eating the cats!”, and thought, “Yeah, he’s got my vote!”? Maybe - just maybe - we are wrong about that being the appeal. I think we cared a lot more about that line than Trump supporters did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-omnibus-thread/1009683.md?page=66)