# Election Day \[Week\]\[Month\[s\]\] \[Year\] 2020 follow-along thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 3, 2020, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618 "2020-11-03T05:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 191
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3809 "2020-11-06T21:58:14Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Many people in Australia, particularly in the Labour Party, were outraged when Kevin Rudd, the Prime Minister they thought they had voted for, was replaced by Julia Gillard, the person who their elected delegates wanted. (That is, the representatives who they /thought/ should be delegates). When Tony Abbott was replaced by Malcolm Turnbull in similar circumstances, they weren’t pleased that the conservative party had moved left: they were outraged that the conservative party was able and willing to select a Prime Minister different than the one they had voted against, demonstrating the faithlessness of all conservative parties and conservative elements. The significant difference between Australian PM-knifing and US faithless electors is that when Australian MPs punt a sitting prime-minister, they appoint a replacement that’s always of the same party. And since Australian political parties have much more party unity than US ones do, this makes it a far less significant or heated issue - not to mention the fact that we the electorate didn’t choose who was going to be Party Figurehead in the first place so, eh, whatever. As a rusted-on lefty and a political tragic, I don’t remember anyone I know personally who was actually outraged by Gillard replacing Rudd. I do remember a lot of political commentators telling me I _ought_ to be outraged, and that the Australian electorate Doesn’t Like That Kind Of Thing. I would have been pretty bloody outraged if after Labor winning the election, a bunch of bozos from Coalition states had swept in and said “you know what? Tony Abbot’s going to form this government” - which is much more like the US faithless elector situation. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3810 "2020-11-06T21:58:33Z")
Hmmm … I’ve just been out of the house for an hour or so and it seems that both PA and GA have considerably tightened. Someone else mentioned that AZ has, too, but I don’t remember previous numbers. Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but PA right now has Biden leading by just over 15K votes (0.2%) and GA has him leading by just 1448. Am I missing something that makes this not so bad? Both are in recount territory, and GA has already said they will recount. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3811 "2020-11-06T21:59:37Z")
Linky? I don’t doubt you, but a quick google for “allegheny county ballot error” gives a lot of references to about 30K ballots that were sent out in error back in October (for the wrong precinct or something, and supposedly fixed). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3812 "2020-11-06T22:00:08Z")
Wow! In the Political Geography course I’m currently teaching, we just finished the unit on the “US elections geographies”, and are about to start “Indigenous territorialities.” I’ll use this map to make the segue! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3813 "2020-11-06T22:00:09Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > > [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > > > Trump needs PA, GA, NZ, NC and AZ and that is a tie? I thought that was a Trump win. Not that it is going to happen > > Trump needs New Zealand? At this point, Trump needs all the help he can get. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3814 "2020-11-06T22:00:46Z")
Someone talk me down from the ledge. On the PA Secretary of State page it shows provisional ballots so far at 969 Trump vs. 304 Biden. Pretty sure a big chunk of those are from Cambria County and are close to their in-person vote ratio. Please tell me that 100k provisional ballots are going to follow the in-person vote ratios in their respective counties… ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3815 "2020-11-06T22:04:15Z")
The issue with PA is that the State Supreme Court, not the Legislature, okayed expanding the post-election deadline. States which already had such grace periods should not be affected — although with this malAdministration, who knows what they’d try? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3816 "2020-11-06T22:04:46Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Please tell me that 100k provisional ballots are going to follow the in-person vote ratios in their respective counties… Here’s what Nate Rakich at 538 says: > [@](#): > > - **Pennsylvania** : Biden has overtaken Trump in the state and now leads by 13,371 votes — and most of the remaining 100,000+ ballots should be very good for Democrats, given that they are either mail-in or provisional votes. Of particular note, a cache of about [29,000 mail-in ballots](https://triblive.com/local/allegheny-county-officials-explain-why-thousands-of-ballots-cant-yet-be-counted/) in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh) that a court had ordered to be segregated and double-checked will be counted starting at 5 p.m. Eastern. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3817 "2020-11-06T22:05:29Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Question: Since 22 states, 10 of which backed Trump in 2016, have a post-election day deadline for receiving ballots, if SCOTUS decides states cannot count ballots received after the deadline on Election Day, what happens to the counts in those other 21 states? Did ALL 22 states put aside late-arriving ballots or tabulate them separately? The issue isn’t so much that states allow ballots that arrive late to be counted, but that the PA legislature does not codify this for PA (the 3-day cutoff was imposed by a judge, not the legislature). Other states have laws on the books already that say “will count if postmarked, and received by x days after” or whatever. This time around, with mail delays, someone might have sent something a few days in advance and it did not arrive due to no fault of the sender. As Trump and his toadies have proven time and time again, they don’t care about what is right and moral, they care about manipulating the system for their own good, including suppression of potentially opposing votes through any legal or quasi-legal means they can. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3818 "2020-11-06T22:07:02Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Hmmm … I’ve just been out of the house for an hour or so and it seems that both PA and GA have considerably tightened. Someone else mentioned that AZ has, too, but I don’t remember previous numbers. Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but PA right now has Biden leading by just over 15K votes (0.2%) and GA has him leading by just 1448. Am I missing something that makes this not so bad? Both are in recount territory, and GA has already said they will recount. FTR, the GA totals just changed to show Biden roughly 4300 ahead, and the percentage difference now registers as 49.4% Biden vs 49.3% Trump. 🙂 And I guess my question about PA was answered by the quote from 538, if indeed many of the remaining votes are leaning to Biden. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3819 "2020-11-06T22:08:27Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I’ll use this map to make the segue! Excellent. If you want access to the originals that I used, you can find the tribal lands map (including a hi-res PDF) here: [https://www3.epa.gov/region9/air/maps/az\_tribe.html](https://www3.epa.gov/region9/air/maps/az_tribe.html) and the updated AZ election map here: > **[Election Night Results](https://electionmap.blob.core.windows.net/electionmapblob/ElectionMap.html)** > > Next Generation in Political Management Software ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3820 "2020-11-06T22:09:43Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Hmmm … I’ve just been out of the house for an hour or so and it seems that both PA and GA have considerably tightened. Someone else mentioned that AZ has, too, but I don’t remember previous numbers. Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but PA right now has Biden leading by just over 15K votes (0.2%) and GA has him leading by just 1448. **Am I missing something that makes this not so bad?** Both are in recount territory, and GA has already said they will recount. My bold. I’d like an answer to this, too. (I can’t relax about thing… so sue me. Wait–don’t sue me.) ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3821 "2020-11-06T22:10:07Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > But I can give an argument why I don’t think that was even a distant possibility – but I think it’s a bit off-topic for this thread, not to mention 20-year-old news by now. Hopefully, it’s not too off-topic. I’d be interested. Al Gore was on election coverage last night, talking about his close race with Bush and how he felt about it. If the race gets really close, Biden might be in the same situation. Why would a recount not possibly go in his favor? ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3822 "2020-11-06T22:11:03Z")
There is a traditional reluctance for the courts to invalidate ballots which were cast in accordance with the rules at the time they were cast, even if the rule is invalidated. There was an issue with a court in NC (I think) that waived the witness signature requirement on mail-in ballots. This was overturned at a higher court (not sure if the SC) but ballots that were sent unwitnessed during the period before the requirement was overturned were still ruled to be valid, as long as they were postmarked within a certain number of days (3?) after the original decision was overturned. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3823 "2020-11-06T22:11:27Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I know [rawstory.com](http://rawstory.com) is kind of the online liberal version of the NY Post or something, but I’m loving their gleefully scornful articles right now. I love Raw Story for the incendiary headlines they come up with, not to mention the Recommended Daily Diet of Recreational Outrage they so reliably serve up! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3824 "2020-11-06T22:14:34Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I think I found it. > > [Outagamie County election: Poll workers redoing misprinted ballots](https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/11/03/outagamie-county-election-poll-workers-redoing-misprinted-ballots/6143640002/) > > The misprint is visible in a black square near the edge of the ballots. It’s small, but machines used to scan ballots can’t accurately read them. > > > “ _At a table inside St. Matthew Lutheran Church in Appleton, two poll workers went through stacks of absentee ballots early Tuesday afternoon, carefully duplicating ones affected by a misprint so they could be properly counted._ ” > > ~Max ~Max. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3825 "2020-11-06T22:14:58Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > Hmmm … I’ve just been out of the house for an hour or so and it seems that both PA and GA have considerably tightened. Someone else mentioned that AZ has, too, but I don’t remember previous numbers. Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but PA right now has Biden leading by just over 15K votes (0.2%) and GA has him leading by just 1448. Am I missing something that makes this not so bad? Both are in recount territory, and GA has already said they will recount. > > FTR, the GA totals just changed to show Biden roughly 4300 ahead, and the percentage difference now registers as 49.4% Biden vs 49.3% Trump. 🙂 > > And I guess my question about PA was answered by the quote from 538, if indeed many of the remaining votes are leaning to Biden. That should be close to calling it for GA… may want to wait until 7pm to see how many ballots come in from military/overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3826 "2020-11-06T22:19:08Z")
Im sorry, so much news…I had two stories mixed up. The ballot misprint and transfer happened in Wisconsin, a county in the Green Bay suburbs. And they used the National Guard - working in pairs- to transfer the votes. > **[US Election Day 2020 news](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-03-20/h_5b3e138efbb57cc8a3de1a270df094e8)** > > Donald Trump and Joe Biden each need 270 electoral votes to win the presidency. Follow here for the latest updates on voting and election results. The story is the first update at this link, . It gave the Trump trolls plenty of good video of “poll workers creating ballots, though. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3827 "2020-11-06T22:25:05Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The misprint is visible in a black square near the edge of the ballots. It’s small, but machines used to scan ballots can’t accurately read them. > > > “ _At a table inside St. Matthew Lutheran Church in Appleton, two poll workers went through stacks of absentee ballots early Tuesday afternoon, carefully duplicating ones affected by a misprint so they could be properly counted._ ” Ha! If any of those ballots were for Biden, this sort of hanky-panky is proof of Election Fraud™! – _Trumpian “logic”_ ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/3828 "2020-11-06T22:25:21Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > > [@Senegoid](#): > > > > But I can give an argument why I don’t think that was even a distant possibility – but I think it’s a bit off-topic for this thread, not to mention 20-year-old news by now. > > Hopefully, it’s not too off-topic. I’d be interested. Al Gore was on election coverage last night, talking about his close race with Bush and how he felt about it. If the race gets really close, Biden might be in the same situation. Why would a recount not possibly go in his favor? I think I can answer this briefly yet fully enough. The major-by-far fuck-up in Florida 2000 was that butterfly ballot clusterfuck, which was a systematic – that is, very one-sided – error that delivered more votes for Reform Party candidate Pat Buchanan in Palm Beach County than there were registered Reform Party voters there, widely suspected of having come in error at the expense of Al Gore. **These were votes that no amount of recounting could have ever recovered.** OTOH, the recounts focused on hanging chads and other miscellaneous ballot boo-boos, which I assume were highly random with respect to party rather than systematic or biased for or against any particular candidate. **Thus, every vote changed in the recount could equally likely have been toward Bush or toward Gore. Thus, they should have statistically balanced each other more-or-less.** The actual change in votes would hardly likely have overcome the systematic butterfly blunder, and in fact at 537 votes changed did not come even close. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618.md?page=190) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618.md?page=192)