# Elections are about choosing the lesser evil **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2025, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731 "2025-09-04T00:47:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/41 "2025-09-04T18:54:13Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > And they can blame you back for continuing to support and encourage those who run the system you’re stuck dealing with. My point is more about not blaming and trying to put together alternatives that work. Generally, I vote in primaries for candidates I agree with, then vote in general elections to defeat maga republicans. I don’t think there’s an alternative to that that I can deliver. There are plenty of things that can be done in addition to voting against maga relublicans i.e. organizing, protesting, trying to persuade people of my views etc. However these aren’t alternatives - they are completely irrespective of voting. As someone who thinks there is no alternative to voting against authoritarian conservatives the burden is not on me to come up with something. The burden is on people who agree with the threat posed by those conservatives but think some alternative besides voting is the answer. When they neither vote to stop the magas nor provide an alternative then I’m going to blame them for that. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/42 "2025-09-04T19:00:00Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > But Harris wasn’t publicly angry enough about Israel, so I guess the Gazans are in great shape now, yeah? They’d probably be in the same shape if Harris was elected, with the only difference being that Netanyahu wouldn’t be showing Harris a letter where he nominated her for the Nobel Peace Price. Like it or not, the electorate is full of ‘single issue voters’ whose views have to be considered in the calculus of elections. A two-party system ensures that their views will never be represented in the mainstream. > [@griffin1977](#): > > _Not_ voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us there. Parties don’t move to the right when they beat right wing opposition, they move to the right when they LOSE. And when they win, they conclude that they’ve found the ‘sweet spot’ in being ‘moderate(ly conservative)’ and stay there even when their voters made it clear that they’ve made compromises to put them in office. The Democratic National Committee, the organizing group behind fundraising for Democratic candidates at all levels, has become a moribund body that is stuck in keeping everything the same even as the country changes; it pushed Barack. Obama’s “Hope and Change” as long as he didn’t really change anything about corporate oversight or curtail military spending, and it pimped Hillary Clinton to the forefront and actively recruited celebrities to talk her up despite her broad unpopularity and dismissive manner toward anyone who was not toeing the party line or who wasn’t a big money donor. It has also tried to quash what should be mainstream Democrats like Liz Warren and Katie Holmes for being uppity broads who wouldn’t stay in their lane when it came to criticizing corporate malfeasance and predatory business practices. If the party isn’t activelly confronted by existential threats it won’t change at all. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/43 "2025-09-04T19:00:40Z")
It’s a long way from “this system hurts people” to “let’s burn it down.” Building constructive alternatives now and thinking about the real issues we face as communities is what I’m suggesting. Voting for or against the major parties may–or may not–help with that. This is a question we may well consider when deciding the morality of voting for the lesser evil, and the answers are often more interesting than the simple choice we are offered. I’m more inspired by the words attributed to Eduardo Galeano than “get out the vote” campaigns: “Utopia is on the horizon. I move two steps closer; it moves two steps further away. I walk another ten steps and the horizon runs ten steps further away. As much as I may walk, I’ll never reach it. So what’s the point of utopia? The point is this: to keep walking.” Or to paraphrase Eugene Debs, it may be better to fight for what we want and take longer to get it than to fight for what we don’t want–and get that. The two approaches–the utopian ones here and the practical pragmatic ones of some in this thread do not have to be antagonistic, and it is often the practical pragmatic ones who create the conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/44 "2025-09-04T19:04:19Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > And they can blame you back for continuing to support and encourage those who run the system you’re stuck dealing with. The system was created 250 years ago, it’s not changing. _Someone is going to run it_. Thanks to these nudnicks (among others) that person is Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/45 "2025-09-04T19:04:58Z")
Without even reading the pamphlet?! I admit, utopia is taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/46 "2025-09-04T19:17:02Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > And they can blame you back for continuing to support and encourage those who run the system you’re stuck dealing with. My point is more about not blaming and trying to put together alternatives that work. And refusing to vote means that _it doesn’t matter_ what “alternatives” you try to make, because the fascists will come and destroy it all. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/47 "2025-09-04T19:26:23Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > I’m puzzled by the suggestions that America’s political problems stem from having a two-party system. As an American, I am pretty much forced to be represented by a Republican or a Democrat. In a multi-party system, there is a chance that I can elect someone that more closely matches my views than those two parties. It also forces compromise if there is no majority in the legislative branch. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/48 "2025-09-04T19:35:46Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The system was created 250 years ago, it’s not changing. “The system” of federalized constitutional government has changed pretty radically in the last 250 years to the tune of 17 amendments (beyond the Bill of Rights) in ways that the Founders wouldn’t have imagined and most would not agree with including the abolition of chattel slavery, acquiring and granting statehood to the middle swath of the North American continent and couple of exclaves, expanding the voting franchise to women and Native Americans, prohibiting and then allowing the sale and distribution of alcoholic beverages, giving the federal government the power to levy income tax, applying term limits to the office of President, et cetera. Some of those changes hadn’t been very good or well-thought out (especially the expansion of executive authority and the establishment of a virtually unaccountable surveillance state) but most of then are broadly regarded as positive, even by self-identified ‘conservatives’. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/49 "2025-09-04T19:51:47Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > The system isn’t some external thing, separate from us. The system is us. We all still have to live together in a peaceful way somehow. How we do that is the question. Talking about burning down the system is telling the rest of us that you want to end our lives as we have known them because you think something better will result from the destruction. You will never win a popular election by threatening the lives and livelihoods of those you are trying to persuade. So how do you plan on achieving this without popular support? You’re presuming that the goal is to make things better and solve problems. That’s the goal for some people - specifically, those who try to wield political power in order to accomplish desired results. You know - politicians. For others, the goal is to perpetually critique power (often to a large, devoted, and lucrative audience). These people will turn on anyone, even anyone aligned with them, who actually takes the sort of actions they’re theoretically agitating for. A good example of this is the way that the DSA have completely turned on AOC, branding her a “lib”. Of course, the DSA isn’t the only group that acts this way, but they’re among the most blatant. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/50 "2025-09-04T20:10:48Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > I’ve come to the conclusion that I should always feel a little bit disappointed with my candidate, especially since I am on the edge of the political spectrum, but I am interested in hearing other perspectives. I had the fortune it misfortune as a child (3rd grade) to write an essay on a historical “hero”. With the materials and information available to me, at that moment in time, I chose Christopher Columbus. Suffice it to say that it was a fast fall from there. I don’t know how many people learn the lesson but I’d argue that anyone that studies history should learn that the whole idea of heroes is flawed. Ultimately, all you can get is lessons, not supermen. And the same with politics. These are all, at the end of the day, just people and those people are limited to the society that they were born into, the limits of the role that they’re elected into it, and the simply frailty of the human condition. But I wouldn’t say that there’s _only_ harm minimization. Someone could still, genuinely, seem like a good candidate. I don’t know that it’s very common, but I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t ever happen. And I also don’t believe that it does any good to vote, if neither candidate has sufficient merits. Like, if you’re tasked to hire a new doctor for a hospital, and the two people that show up are an untreatable schizophrenic with no medical experience nor knowledge beset by constant hallucinations of being under the control of aliens OR a guy who likewise has no medical training but did almost go to jail as a serial killer, well…maybe the schizophrenic is a safer bet but you’re probably better to choose neither. While it may be that your local election system will reward a person with a job if even 1 vote is cast for them and 0 for the other guy, in a county of millions, that still at least signals that the voters have recognized the lack of quality, and that there’s an opportunity for pretty much anyone better to come and compete during the next election. (Obviously, it would be better if there were a lower confidence cutoff, but that’s a separate question.) But, if everyone checks a box for every race then there’s no such heuristic and no driving force among the candidates except to be less worse than the other guy. Even when there’s only two candidates in a ballot, there are three options. You can and should vote for no one if no one is fit to hold the job. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/51 "2025-09-04T20:21:25Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > While it may be that your local election system will reward a person with a job if even 1 vote is cast for them and 0 for the other guy, in a county of millions, that still at least signals that the voters have recognized the lack of quality, and that there’s an opportunity for pretty much anyone better to come and compete during the next election. (Obviously, it would be better if there were a lower confidence cutoff, but that’s a separate question.) This assumes that whoever did wind up in charge doesn’t undermine the election system. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/52 "2025-09-04T21:39:57Z")
You might say that, in the short term, having a kid stick his finger into the hole in the dyke is the right answer. And sure, once you’re to that point, that may be true. But how did you get to the point where using a child as a guard against massive scale loss of life is what’s necessary? Through the consistent and tunnel visioned focus on the short term. At some point you have to stop moving from child fingers, to bubble gum, to trying to blow the waters back with hand grenades to accept that you simply failed the mission, long back, long ago. Progressively silly stop-gap solutions just isn’t the answer. Get the people out of the way and let the water destroy everything. Focus on how to build back better and, on the day you’ve got the new dam in place, remember the importance of the long view with things like good old boring upkeep and maintenance. If a politician is bad enough, there comes the day where you have to give them the rope to hang themselves. That day ain’t going to be pretty. But you can stay focused on what comes after. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/53 "2025-09-05T00:58:14Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It has also tried to quash what should be mainstream Democrats like Liz Warren and Katie Holmes for being uppity broads Emphasis added. Katie Porter? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/54 "2025-09-05T00:59:35Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > And I also don’t believe that it does any good to vote, if neither candidate has sufficient merits. Like, if you’re tasked to hire a new doctor for a hospital, and the two people that show up are an untreatable schizophrenic with no medical experience nor knowledge beset by constant hallucinations of being under the control of aliens OR a guy who likewise has no medical training but did almost go to jail as a serial killer, well…maybe the schizophrenic is a safer bet but you’re probably better to choose neither. Here’s the thing though; if we extrapolate your example to the real-world, it was more like "You have a critically ill family member, and you have one choice between two and only two people to treat them, or else they die. One’s a new age faith healer who proposes using crystals, and the other’s a sexist, borderline alcoholic veterinarian. Neither’s a particularly good choice in normal circumstances, but _ **if a choice has to be made or your family member dies** _, better to choose the one who’s a medical professional of sorts, even if neither one is anywhere near optimal. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/55 "2025-09-05T01:41:06Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Emphasis added. Katie Porter? Those scumbags at the DNC never let Katie Holmes get on the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/56 "2025-09-05T01:47:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > That day ain’t going to be pretty. > > But you can stay focused on what comes after. Yes, we can build a very nice dam with all the soil left over from the mass graves. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/57 "2025-09-05T02:00:01Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > > [@Tamerlane](#): > > > > Emphasis added. Katie Porter? > > Those scumbags at the DNC never let Katie Holmes get on the ballot. Probably responsible for replacing her in _The Dark Knight_, too. Yes, Katie _Porter_. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/58 "2025-09-05T03:43:10Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Like, if you’re tasked to hire a new doctor for a hospital, and the two people that show up are an untreatable schizophrenic with no medical experience nor knowledge beset by constant hallucinations of being under the control of aliens OR a guy who likewise has no medical training but did almost go to jail as a serial killer, well…maybe the schizophrenic is a safer bet but you’re probably better to choose neither. Not voting doesn’t mean no one will get elected. For this analogy to work, a new doctor must be hired regardless of whether you pick the schizophrenic or the hallucinator. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/59 "2025-09-05T04:16:05Z")
If one is going to compare, say, Trump vs Harris to serial killer vs schizophrenic . . . maybe you shouldn’t be allowed to vote. Stop giving us reasons to conclude that Universal Suffrage was a bad idea after all. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731/60 "2025-09-05T14:25:43Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > > The basic problem is with our two party system and primaries > > I agree. I live in a multi-party parliamentary democracy with a proportional voting mechanic. We _never_ hear this “lesser of two evils” stuff. It simply isn’t part of the political dialog. Our people vote _for,_ period. I think it is just a matter of ratios. 152M people selecting from 2 (or 20) national candidates means no one is happy. As elections are smaller, the ratios are better and the ‘lesser of two evils’ complaint goes away. For example: In Illinois ~13M people choose from ~2 Senatorial candidates for each of 2 positions. It is a much better ratio and I don’t hear the ‘lesser of two evils’ much. Add in the fact that Senate elections, like Parliamentary, are regional rather than national so there is a higher chance of ‘agreement’ among the voters. This is one of the (many) strengths of a parliamentary democracy over a national presidential election. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > There is just a real nihilistic undercurrent in society of an unconscious ‘accelerationist’ notion that if everything is going badly is better to help burn it down quickly rather than let it decline slowly There is definitely a contingent of people that want to throw a grenade into the system and see what comes out. I remember people expressing this in post-poll interviews back in 2016. I maintain that there is a much larger contingent that just wants to be entertained – and Trump and MAGA entertain them. People are addicted to the dopamine hits from their feeds. Policy is hard and gotchas are easy. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > But really, the larger problem (beyond an effectively two party system which often excludes major viewpoints of the electorate) is that more than 77 million voters saw naked autocratic ambition with fascist trappings who has already once engaged in an insurrection to avoid leaving office and said, “Please, sir, may I have another?” When a mass of voters want fascism, they’re going to get fascism, and the rest of us are along for the ride. This is the root-cause of the issue in the US. In Nov 2023, 77M people still wanted what Trump was selling. The counter move was to focus on controlling Congress, but that won’t be enough any more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elections-are-about-choosing-the-lesser-evil/1022731.md?page=4)