# Elective surgical lobotomy questions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223 "2015-12-02T17:06:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/1 "2015-12-02T17:06:40Z")
If a person voluntarily gets himself surgically lobotomized (whether by a doctor or in a “back-alley”) and then wants to take cortex replacement therapy, then would his insurance cover this? Any thoughts on this? Also, Yes, this is a completely serious question. And what would my personality be like, after the change? Would I no longer recognize friends or family? Would my personality undergo odd changes, be subject to random fits of shouting at the imaginary roaches on my walls, and spinning in circles? Would I forget how to do simple arithmetic? Leave my possessions strewn all over creation? Would the insurance also cover a guide dog, to keep me from wandering randomly into traffic? Those are also completely serious questions. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/2 "2015-12-02T17:17:51Z")
Elective surgical lobotomy? Man, that would take balls. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/3 "2015-12-02T18:37:16Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > If a person voluntarily gets himself surgically lobotomized (whether by a doctor or in a “back-alley”) and then wants to take **cortex replacement therapy** , then would his insurance cover this? “Cortex replacement therapy”? That’s a thing? Last I heard nerve loss in the CNS was basically irreversible. As to insurance coverage, I suspect it’s possible. Doesn’t insurance cover the medical care needed to recover from other self-inflicted traumas, like a suicide attempt? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/4 "2015-12-02T18:44:39Z")
But you still want to be able to write a Ph.D dissertation, right? Elective lobotomy is the only certain way to prevent making a typo. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/5 "2015-12-02T18:47:58Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Elective surgical lobotomy? Man, that would take balls. Snicker ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/6 "2015-12-02T18:49:06Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > And what would my personality be like, after the change? Rent and watch One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest with Jack Nicholson. Back alley surgeon: “Heh, we take lungs today, next week you get gills”. Fry: Alright! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/7 "2015-12-02T19:43:28Z")
A parody of another poster’s thread belongs in The Pit. Off it goes. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/8 "2015-12-02T19:47:05Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > And what would my personality be like, after the change? You said “lobotomy”, as in 1950s, as in “ice pick thrust past the inner canthus of the eye into the front of the brain and wiggled around to sever the nerves”. The doctor who made them famous, [Dr. Walter Freeman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Jackson_Freeman_II), is said to have once done two simultaneously, one with his left hand and one with the right hand, to show off how easy it was. By most reports, you would • not care very intensely about anything, ever again; you would cease to have much emotional reponse of any sort to anything, although it might be possible for something to annoy or amuse you briefly • you can kiss a few points’ worth of your IQ goodbye; anticipate an outcome somewhere between low normal (like 85 or 90) and tree stump level, assuming you don’t simply die (there’s not a lot of finesse involved in the process, in case you weren’t too clear on that point) • memory was not generally listed among the things most centrally damaged by the process; admittedly one should not draw too many conclusions based on the absence of something being mentioned, but if I recall correctly people knew their names and could recognize family members; the above article mentions some people having to relearn things like how to go to the bathroom but I’m not sure memory was the issue there. Psychosurgery is not entirely dead, although it is not in good repute; modern versions do not fly under the namebrand banner of “lobotomy” and instead may be found listed under terms like “cingulotomy” and “leukotomy”. It’s still intentional destruction of medically healthy brain tissue, any way you, umm, slice it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/9 "2015-12-02T19:55:21Z")
It sounds stupid, but insurance should have to cover it, just like any other self inflicted injury. What thread is this a parody of? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/10 "2015-12-02T20:05:09Z")
Hey, if it means you’re no longer financially responsible for anything stupid you might hypothetically have done with your brain, it’s TOTES WORTH IT!! **TriPolar** - literally any of the dozens of threads **Futurist110** has started. Pick one at random. They’re all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/11 "2015-12-02T20:22:54Z")
If you get lobotomized, but are still able to commit crimes, does the doctor who performed the lobotomy go to prison instead of you? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/12 "2015-12-02T20:45:28Z")
Will you be financially responsible for the ideas you create? What if you give someone an idea and they die? What if someone turns your idea inside-out and uses it? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/13 "2015-12-02T20:55:47Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > … > • not care very intensely about anything, ever again; you would cease to have much emotional reponse of any sort to anything, although it might be possible for something to annoy or amuse you briefly > > • you can kiss a few points’ worth of your IQ goodbye; anticipate an outcome somewhere between low normal (like 85 or 90) and tree stump level, assuming you don’t simply die (there’s not a lot of finesse involved in the process, in case you weren’t too clear on that point) > > • memory was not generally listed among the things most centrally damaged by the process; admittedly one should not draw too many conclusions based on the absence of something being mentioned, but if I recall correctly people knew their names and could recognize family members; the above article mentions some people having to relearn things like how to go to the bathroom but I’m not sure memory was the issue there… So, win win! ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/14 "2015-12-02T20:59:19Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > If a person voluntarily gets himself surgically lobotomized (whether by a doctor or in a “back-alley”) and then wants to take cortex replacement therapy, then would his insurance cover this? > > Any thoughts on this? > > Also, Yes, this is a completely serious question. > And what would my personality be like, after the change? Would I no longer recognize friends or family? Would my personality undergo odd changes, be subject to random fits of shouting at the imaginary roaches on my walls, and spinning in circles? Would I forget how to do simple arithmetic? Leave my possessions strewn all over creation? Would the insurance also cover a guide dog, to keep me from wandering randomly into traffic? > > Those are also completely serious questions. What the fuck are you talking about? Edit: Sorry. I’m an idiot. I just got it. Good one 🙂 Edit 2: For anyone who, like me, was a little slow on the uptake on this one, the OP is a parody of some of the…shall we say _speculative_ hypotheticals proposed by [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php) poster. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/15 "2015-12-02T21:07:58Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Any thoughts on this? I’m not sure. Maybe you better start twenty more threads about this question, in all the different forums, before we decide. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/16 "2015-12-02T21:19:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Will you be financially responsible for the ideas you create? What if you give someone an idea and they die? What if someone turns your idea inside-out and uses it? And if you subsequently write a Ph.D. Thesis, can you sue the doctor for the cost of your tuition because the lobotomy was clearly ineffective? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/17 "2015-12-02T21:24:24Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Hey, if it means you’re no longer financially responsible for anything stupid you might hypothetically have done with your brain, it’s TOTES WORTH IT!! > > **TriPolar** - literally any of the dozens of threads **Futurist110** has started. Pick one at random. They’re all the same. Perhaps **Futurist** has already been lobotomized. It would explain a lot… ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/18 "2015-12-02T21:59:39Z")
On a serious note, several weeks ago, I saw an interview on C-SPAN2’s “About Books” with the author of the new Rosemary Kennedy biography. Someone in the Q&A asked if lobotomies are still being performed in the United States today, and she said they are. The procedure is only done when all other known therapies have proven useless, it involves several layers of medical ethics, and (this is probably the biggest obstacle) none of the entities involved are allowed to receive any payment for it. :eek: A neurosurgeon she spoke to while doing research for the book said he had done it twice in recent years; she divulged no further details. [http://www.c-span.org/video/?328843-1/kate-clifford-larson-rosemary](http://www.c-span.org/video/?328843-1/kate-clifford-larson-rosemary) ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/19 "2015-12-02T22:51:00Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > • not care very intensely about anything, ever again; you would cease to have much emotional reponse of any sort to anything, although it might be possible for something to annoy or amuse you briefly > > • you can kiss a few points’ worth of your IQ goodbye; anticipate an outcome somewhere between low normal (like 85 or 90) and tree stump level, assuming you don’t simply die (there’s not a lot of finesse involved in the process, in case you weren’t too clear on that point) > > • memory was not generally listed among the things most centrally damaged by the process; admittedly one should not draw too many conclusions based on the absence of something being mentioned, but if I recall correctly people knew their names and could recognize family members; the above article mentions some people having to relearn things like how to go to the bathroom but I’m not sure memory was the issue there. Where do I sign up? That sounds a lot better than my day to day existence is now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223/20 "2015-12-02T22:57:18Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It sounds stupid, but insurance should have to cover it, just like any other self inflicted injury. > > What thread is this a parody of? If you had any balls, you’d know. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elective-surgical-lobotomy-questions/739223.md?page=2)