# Electric cars, Musk and the Right **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** elon-musk\ **Created:** [February 16, 2025, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381 "2025-02-16T15:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/21 "2025-02-19T11:06:30Z")
There are certainly nicer and more performant EVs for those who have the budget for that. Tesla’s self-driving seems to be far beyond what _all_ other brands offer. If you want mostly-self-driving, it’s a Tesla or a horse, period. Nobody else comes close. True fully self-driving? Hire a chauffeur. So far. IMO it’s a mistake to think of Tesla as “_the_ EV brand”. There are many EV brands now. Tesla is “_the_ self driving brand”. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/22 "2025-02-19T16:16:28Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Tesla’s self-driving seems to be far beyond what _all_ other brands offer. If you want mostly-self-driving, it’s a Tesla or a horse, period. Well, if you don’t mind [spontaneously braking](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/regulators-receive-more-than-750-complaints-of-faulty-braking-in-teslas), occasionally [running into parked emergency vehicles](https://slate.com/technology/2021/08/teslas-allegedly-hitting-emergency-vehicles-why-it-could-be-happening.html), sometimes [catching fire](https://www.carjunkya.com/tesla-car-fire-statistics/), and [failing just after lulling their owners into a false sense of complacency](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141361/tesla-autopilot-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-report-crash-death). I’ve personally experienced a Tesla on ‘Autopark’ trying to drive under my truck while I was parked, and one repeatedly sweeping back and forth across a five lane interstate highway during rush hour before deciding to literally stop in the middle of the road, stalling traffic and causing many near-fenderbenders for people trying to get around it until highway patrol could get an oversized flatbed to haul the fucking thing away. If it is “a Tesla or a horse”, I think I’ll take the latter as being less temperamental and more reliable despite the fact that horses get spooked by fluttering leaves and shadows. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/23 "2025-02-19T21:11:46Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Tesla is “_the_ self driving brand”. Just adding perspective : **… Partially, and only in one out of 190 countries.** ;o) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2025, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/24 "2025-02-20T03:24:33Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Musk is very good at exactly two things: creating cult-like hype about his ideas and products his companies make, and claiming credit for the ideas of others You don’t seem to realize Elon is a member of one of the most prestigious scientific organizations in the world: the [British] Royal Society founded in 1660. Strangely some people want him thrown out: > **[Royal Society urged to expel Elon Musk as fellows sign open letter](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/feb/14/elon-musk-royal-society-open-letter-academics)** > > More than 1,700 academics complain about X owner’s behaviour, citing his ‘assault on scientific research’ ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2025, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/25 "2025-02-20T03:31:43Z")
I can’t read that article because _The Guardian_ keeps overlaying an unremovable promotion for a Miles Teller/Anya Taylor-Joy movie that I apparentlhy absolutely have to watch even though I could give less than two shits for either of them but the fact that the Royal Society inducted Elon Musk indicates its utter bankruptcy as Musk hasn’t advanced any science except that of inflating his own ego. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/26 "2025-02-22T14:22:47Z")
I’m in Norway right now. About 80% of new car sales are EVs. Most busses and some smaller over-the-road trucks are EVs. The construction equipment used to build buildings are rapidly becoming EV. Teslas were real big in the early days but in the last 6 months the sales of Teslas here has cratered. Resale values now approximate zero. That’s not what the Right in the USA is doing, but it is what the Progressive Left is doing elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/27 "2025-02-22T14:32:55Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The construction equipment used to build buildings are rapidly becoming EV. You mean like back-hoes, trac-hoes and loaders Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/28 "2025-02-22T16:36:40Z")
It’s actually a good application for battery-powered vehicles. These machines often spend a lot of time idling their diesel or kerosene engines, developing peak torque at impending motion is ideal, and they aren’t weight limited the way road transport vehicles are so you can essentially use batteries as ballast. The aerial manlift industry moved toward electric vehicles decades ago for many applications because the lack of exhaust and engine noise makes them ideal for working inside of occupied buildings or on sites where such emissions would be undesirable. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/29 "2025-02-22T17:40:07Z")
plus, they are becoming cheap as chips if you bring them in from china in containers on your own … and of-course (huge argument) … they do not need to be “DOT-approved”, b/c you operate them on private land and not on public roads. There is def. a need for small construction machinery (mini or micro trac-hoes, loaders, etc…) that until now (due to ICE limitations) was not really viable ($$) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/30 "2025-02-22T17:57:01Z")
Huh. Good points. I was thinking more about a skid steer or trac-hoe that does it’s job and leaves. Certainly they do/can idle for long periods, but the job I had done 2 years ago, I never saw anyone of them not at work. And neither of them needed ballast. I saw a skid steer move twelve tandem loads of loads of rock at my property. It took about 4 days. The only time it was off was when there was no operator. Here in about an hour I will get my Kubota fired up and move snow. The diesel will warm up for about 5 minutes and then be put to work. I will take breaks, but it will not be left idling. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/31 "2025-02-24T21:31:01Z")
The internet has plenty of Tesla hate, much of it baseless. Fires, really? ICE vehicles run on gasoline, which is highly flammable. That’s why they’re 60 times more likely to catch fire. No updates? The current Model 3 is the 3rd gen. Here’s some improvements over the 2nd gen: Power Braking Noise Range Comfort Reliability Fit and finish More boring than a Camry? The lowest-spec Model 3 will run circles around the highest-spec Camry. The highest-spec Model 3 will out lap a Ferrari 458. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/32 "2025-02-24T21:36:24Z")
I imagine the root cause of a lot of the hate is because the CEO is a white supremacist who is actively destroying America’s government and democracy, while supporting near Nazis in Germany and white supremacists in the UK. Some people object to helping fund someone like that, I imagine. The car stuff probably comes second. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/33 "2025-02-25T00:13:06Z")
Agreed, but there was none of that in the post I was responding to. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/34 "2025-02-25T00:51:24Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > The internet has plenty of Tesla hate, much of it baseless. Fires, really? ICE vehicles run on gasoline, which is highly flammable. Yes, “fires, really”. Often completely spontaneous fires with little notice, and unlike an internal combustion vehicle where the fire will burn out quickly when the gasoline and other volatiles are consumed, and can be extinguished with suppression foam, the lithium-polymer batteries will burn for hours despite efforts to suppress them. Of course, you didn’t both to address any of the other issues with [spontaneously braking](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/regulators-receive-more-than-750-complaints-of-faulty-braking-in-teslas), occasionally [running into parked emergency vehicles](https://slate.com/technology/2021/08/teslas-allegedly-hitting-emergency-vehicles-why-it-could-be-happening.html), and [failing just after lulling their owners into a false sense of complacency](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141361/tesla-autopilot-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-report-crash-death) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/35 "2025-02-25T01:58:03Z")
My Tesla hate precedes the Musk hate. For example, “excitement” isn’t just speed, though, and running circles around Camrys. It’s about creature comforts and not having a stripped down, austere interior. A rental Corolla is much more interesting than a Model Y. Oh, it’s about manufacturing quality, too. I happen to work for a company that tears down Teslas and benchmarks them (and other manufacturers, too). While I can’t go into specific details obviously, wow, what pieces of shit. There are _really_ cool engineering things, like the use of gigacastings instead of stamped body structures, but this it outweighed by ignoring stupid, basic shit like corrosion protection on important interfaces like things I’m not going to specifically mention. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/36 "2025-02-25T02:10:35Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Oh, it’s about manufacturing quality, too. I happen to work for a company that tears down Teslas and benchmarks them (and other manufacturers, too). While I can’t go into specific details obviously, wow, what pieces of shit. There are _really_ cool engineering things, like the use of gigacastings instead of stamped body structures, but this it outweighed by ignoring stupid, basic shit like corrosion protection on important interfaces like things I’m not going to specifically mention. It’s hard to ask for a cite when the cite is yourself and everything is super top-secret. How do I trust your super top-secret insider info? Do you also tear down other EVs? I’ll take your post with a gigantic grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/37 "2025-02-25T02:38:05Z")
My summary of your post: Lithium-ion batteries have proliferated in cars, cell phones, tools, etc, but firefighters still haven’t figured out how to put out the fires, and never will. And you’re right, I haven’t addressed and wrecked ALL the issues in your post. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/38 "2025-02-25T02:58:22Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > It’s hard to ask for a cite when the cite is yourself and everything is super top-secret. How do I trust your super top-secret insider info? Do you also tear down other EVs? It is not a unique assessment: [https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/ubs-teardown-reveals-teslas-model-3-may-have-quality-issues-082318.html](https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/ubs-teardown-reveals-teslas-model-3-may-have-quality-issues-082318.html) > **[Tesla's Simultaneous Brilliance And Incompetence Revealed In Teardown Of Model 3](https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/04/25/teslas-brilliance-and-inexperience-revealed-in-benchmarking-study-of-model-3/)** > > A part-by-part analysis of a disassembled Model 3 shows why Tesla scares the pants off every other automaker, but it also reveals head-scratching mistakes that explain why the automotive newbie is struggling to produce cars profitably. > **[Tesla Model 3 teardown reveals build quality concerns](https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-model-3-teardown-build-quality/)** > > 'The Model 3 scored 2,390 which is in the below average range', firm says. > **[Tesla's Quality Control Is So Bad Customers Are Taking Delivery Inspections...](https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-quality-control-is-so-bad-customers-are-taking-d-1851369990/)** > > Imagine willingly buying a car from a brand where quality control is so bad that you need an aftermarket checklist. [https://www.fastcompany.com/91086771/6-reasons-why-tesla-is-failing-and-they-all-have-to-do-with-design](https://www.fastcompany.com/91086771/6-reasons-why-tesla-is-failing-and-they-all-have-to-do-with-design) > **[Tesla Model 3 Teardown Reveals Shocking Build Quality](https://www.hotcars.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-build-quality/)** > > Recently, and engineering firm did a teardown of the Tesla Model 3, and the build quality of the car is shocking. > [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > My summary of your post: > > Lithium-ion batteries have proliferated in cars, cell phones, tools, etc, but firefighters still haven’t figured out how to put out the fires, and never will. Let me help you; Tesla cars catch on fire often without warning or obvious cause, and are enormously destructive when they do, an issue that Tesla and Elon Musk have tried to downplay and dismiss despite they fact than when the do they pose a severe hazard to not in,y occupants but structures and vehicles adjacent to them because how difficult it is to suppress these fires. > [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > And you’re right, I haven’t addressed and wrecked ALL the issues in your post. Feel free to use both sides of the paper. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/39 "2025-02-25T03:26:32Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > More boring than a Camry? The lowest-spec Model 3 will run circles around the highest-spec Camry. The highest-spec Model 3 will out lap a Ferrari 458. Heh, it depends on the track, and only the first few laps. Every lap after the first is generally slower. I’ve had dual motor Model 3s trying to out do my old bone stock WRX in stoplight to stoplight races. Their posted times say they should beat the WRX. If they don’t have a fresh battery that’s in a cool state, they don’t really have a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381/40 "2025-02-25T11:28:11Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > Lithium-ion batteries have proliferated in cars, cell phones, tools, etc, but firefighters still haven’t figured out how to put out the fires, and never will. That’s basically innate to the design. Lithium batteries contain all three parts of the “[fire triangle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_triangle)”: energy, fuel and oxygen. So it’s impractical for fire fighters to actually “starve” them of what they need to burn, which is how fires are normally fought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-cars-musk-and-the-right/1014381.md?page=3)