# Electric Sun **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2006, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586 "2006-07-08T02:15:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TheFonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TheFonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFonz)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/1 "2006-07-08T02:15:21Z")
The most detailed pictures ever taken of the Sun reveal the insides of striking snake-like filaments that reach from bright portions of the solar surface into the dark hearts of sunspots. [![](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/sun.jpg) ](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/sun.jpg) The pictures reveal what appear to be massive tornadoes running parallel to the surface. One researcher comment, "“A dark-cored filament looks like a glowing snake with a dark stripe painted along its back. The ‘head’ of the snake is often a complicated feature where the stripe splits up among many bright points.” Here is a picture of a twin bridge crossing a sunspot. On the right is a firey tornado demonstration: [![](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/041015solar-tornado.jpg) ](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/041015solar-tornado.jpg) Here’s another good picture of the filaments, with twists: [![](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/sun2.jpg) ](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/sun2.jpg) The area around a sunspot can clearly be seen being drawn towards sunspots. [![](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/050617penumbra.jpg) ](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/050617penumbra.jpg) Problems with the current model of the sun as continuous fusion reaction, releasing energy from the core: Missing neutrinos Temperature of the halo-like corona is 300 times that of surface Rotates faster at equator, faster on surface Solar wind accelerates upon leaving the Sun Sunspots reveal cooler interior Sunspots travel faster than surrounding surface Sunspot penumbra (interior walls) reveal structured filaments [![](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/040830magnetic.jpg) ](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/040830magnetic.jpg) Like the filament in a light bulb, the Sun is glowing with electric energy. This is why it rotates faster at the equator, and why the solar “wind” (or current as it should be called) accelerates off the surface. The solar wind in its plasma state is so big, and the charge difference per cubic meter is so small, that our instruments cannot detect the difference. The auroras at our magnetic poles should show us that it is not electrically neutral, though, as the energy required to produce these events is enormous. If they’re anything like their cousins, elves, then they are most definitely electric in nature. Elves and sprites show us that the energy from lightning comes from high above the tropopause: space. [![](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/discharge.gif) ](https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/discharge.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/2 "2006-07-08T02:24:24Z")
Those are some amazing pictures, but what’s the debate? ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/3 "2006-07-08T02:46:26Z")
Correct, it’s not a debate. I’m not clear if you have a question about this (GQ), or you indeed want to start a debate (GD), or you just care to share (MPSIMS). I’m going to close this for now. Feel free to reopen in the right forum, or e-mail me where you want this to go. * * * EDIT: Reopened. Per the OP via e-mail, the intended debate was: “So looking at the pictures, and knowing what we already do about the Sun, should we really continue relying on outdated theories like the fusion-core model? Why do scientists still assume that the solar wind is electrically neutral? And why haven’t electromagnetics been given a greater role in astronomy?” ---
**Author:** ![TheFonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TheFonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFonz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/4 "2006-07-09T23:04:04Z")
Come oooon, surely there are some scientific minds on this board? Does nobody have an opinion on the electric sun theory vs. the core-fusion theory? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/5 "2006-07-09T23:19:19Z")
I am sorry I have nothing scientific to add, but I just wanted to say: solar activity can be clasified as “elves” and “sprites”. Man, must get real lonely up in the old observatory… (or maybe they’re just all playing D&D :D) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/6 "2006-07-09T23:34:02Z")
:eek: Snakes! On the sun! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/7 "2006-07-10T00:05:39Z")
> [@TheFonz](#): > > The most detailed pictures ever taken of the Sun reveal the insides of striking snake-like filaments that reach from bright portions of the solar surface into the dark hearts of sunspots. > > [http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/sun.jpg](http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/sun.jpg) Seen that somewhere [before](http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/812474/2/istockphoto_812474_figs.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/8 "2006-07-10T00:11:24Z")
I’m a biology type so I have no insight here but I wanted to say those images are gorgeous. I used to think we in the life sciences got all the pretty pictures, but these guys have proven me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/9 "2006-07-10T00:18:49Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Seen that somewhere [before](http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/812474/2/istockphoto_812474_figs.jpg). I defy anybody to say that this is not proof of the electric nature of unripe pomegranete. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/10 "2006-07-10T01:15:44Z")
I’d been under the impression that the “missing neutrino” problem had been effectively [resolved.](http://www.aip.org/pnu/2002/split/586-1.html) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/11 "2006-07-10T01:55:08Z")
I was going to make the point that **Terrifel** made. Does the OP have any evidence that these pictures really put the current model of solar physics in jeopardy? Is he suggesting that the idea of thermonuclear fusion occurring at the core is wrong or simply that it is being supplemented by this additional stuff? I have a lot of skepticism for people proposing new physical theories on messageboards. At the very least, you need to first supply compelling evidence of conflicts with current theory along with some sort of calculations/evidence demonstrating how your new theory should work. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/12 "2006-07-10T02:22:18Z")
Well, a few minutes out in google-land has equated me with the “electric-sun hypothesis” and the “electric/plasma universe theory”. Man, sometimes there are things out there that you didn’t even know existed. [Here](http://www.electric-cosmos.org/sun.htm) seems to be a main website supporting the electric sun hypothesis and from which the OP seems to have gotten his claims regarding weaknesses in the current theory. [See also [here](http://www.thunderbolts.info/home.htm) and [here](http://www.the-electric-universe.info/welcome.html).] And, [here](http://www.tim-thompson.com/electric-sun.html) is a response from Tim Thompson, a physicist at JPL. After reading Thompson’s site, I change my vote from “a lot of skepticism” to “extreme skepticism / believing that this electric-sun hypothesis is likely crackpot”. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/13 "2006-07-10T03:05:30Z")
I’m not an astrophysicist, but just off the top of my head, if stars aren’t powered by fusion reactions, then where do heavy elements (heavier than lithium) come from, and what causes massive stars to blow themselves up in supernova explosions? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/14 "2006-07-10T11:57:05Z")
…Or in the words of Tim Thompson at the site I gave above, > [@](#): > > In order to reject the fundamental theory of fusion in the stellar interior, it would be necessary, to all at once sweep away literally everything known about hydrodynamics & magnetohydrodynamics, thermodynamics, gravitation, nuclear physics, statistical physics, and electromagnetism. Such a grand restructuring of all knowledge certainly would be motivated only by a “problem” of the most profound significance… I think that often people don’t uderstand the degree to which a theory has been tested and just how much science would have to be different if it were overturned. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/15 "2006-07-10T14:26:27Z")
> [@TheFonz](#): > > Come oooon, surely there are some scientific minds on this board? Does nobody have an opinion on the electric sun theory vs. the core-fusion theory? Er, **what** “electric sun theory”? What (other than the currently accepted core-fusion model) is being proposed as a **source** for the energy output of the sun. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/16 "2006-07-10T15:16:07Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Does the OP have any evidence that these pictures really put the current model of solar physics in jeopardy? Well, if you open the images in Photoshop, and zoom in really, really close, you can see billions of Energizer batteries. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/17 "2006-07-10T16:00:12Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Well, a few minutes out in google-land has equated me with the “electric-sun hypothesis” and the “electric/plasma universe theory”. Looking back at what I wrote here, I think I would prefer to be “acquainted” with rather than “equated” with the “electric-sun hypothesis” (although I’m not really too hot on either alternative). > [@Cervaise](#): > > Well, if you open the images in Photoshop, and zoom in really, really close, you can see billions of Energizer batteries. Oh come off it…Anyone can see that they are really Duracell…Can’t you see the little copper tops!!! ---
**Author:** ![TheFonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TheFonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFonz)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/18 "2006-07-10T17:25:53Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > After reading Thompson’s site, I change my vote from “a lot of skepticism” to “extreme skepticism / believing that this electric-sun hypothesis is likely crackpot”. Crackpottery? I suppose you’re one of those guys that believes the widely accepted myth that we completely have lightning figured out, as well. If you say we do then you’re a liar, because even the world’s leading experts on the subject will begrudgingly admit that they don’t completely know how exactly the charge separation that allows for lightning occurs. It’s simply a belief that thunderstorms somehow generate it. > [@](#): > > Er, what “electric sun theory”? What (other than the currently accepted core-fusion model) is being proposed as a source for the energy output of the sun. The proposed energy source is a massive galactic electric current. These currents are invisible to our instruments (or maybe they aren’t, and the true nature of the Universe isn’t being disclosed) and pass over the Sun, igniting it like the filament in a light bulb. These currents are the axes that the galaxies spin around, and hold them together so that they flatten out into disks. What else is going on with the sunspots, and why else would the solar “wind” be accelerating off of the surface? You saw the picture where everything around the sunspot appeared to be getting drawn towards it, and we’ve seen how massive solar flares will erupt out of them every now and then. There should be _ **no doubt** _ that there is something pouring in there, and it is most likely electrons. I mean, what is the mainstream claiming that cools sunspots? Magnetic fields, and that’s supposed to be that? When did we get so assbackwards that we started believing the core was hotter than anything else, when we can clearly see the corona is hotter than the surface is hotter than the area just beneath the surface inside a sunspot? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/19 "2006-07-10T17:30:24Z")
So you’re saying that the universe is filled with gigantic electron flows that are either (A) invisible to us for some unspecified reason or (B) being covered up in a massive worldwide conspiracy to hide an arbitrary bit of physics from us for some unspecified reason. Ooooookay. I’m convinced. ---
**Author:** ![TheFonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TheFonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFonz)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586/20 "2006-07-10T17:39:27Z")
Not just electrons, but the charge that binds itself to an electron. When the Sun was just lighting up and starting to glow all the atoms in it or around the surface gave up a lot of their electrons. When this current weakens it will want to call them back, so there will be more sunspots and hurricanes and tornadoes over here. And the energy is’t detectable because it does’t emit anything itself, it just flows to where it needs to go. You know, dark energy, that stuff that Einstein and every other researcher with some credibility has predicted? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-sun/363586.md?page=2)