# Electric Vehicle critics **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 24, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254 "2019-10-24T20:43:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/861 "2019-11-23T16:57:38Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I notice the “vault” on the Cybertruck is 6’5" long. That means it’s too small to compete with the full-size pickups, and instead will class against the Ford Ranger/Chevy Colorado class. Full-size pickups with a crew cab (four-door) almost always have 6.5-foot beds. My Silverado 1500 is a full-size pickup and has the same 6.5-foot bed as the Cybertruck. OTOH, my truck does not look like something Mick Jagger would drive in a [del]bad[/del] awesome Emilio Estevez movie. I think if and when electric pickups take off, the market will probably be owned by the electric F-150 coming out in a couple years. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/862 "2019-11-23T17:11:23Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I also think that there are a lot of people who are aware that their use pattern would not fit an EV car perfectly RIGHT NOW, but that you’ll dismiss as either making stuff up or as completely fringe cases. There are a lot of people who would not fit an EV car perfectly right now. I have said this frequently. I guess you missed it. No, I don’t dismiss them. There are a lot of people who would not fit an EV car perfectly right now. My beef is with people who pretend that NOBODY should use an EV car right now, and make up outrageous situations and pretend they apply to everyone… ETA: Do you understand that you have misinterpreted what I have said rather badly? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/863 "2019-11-23T17:13:58Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Full-size pickups with a crew cab (four-door) almost always have 6.5-foot beds. My Silverado 1500 is a full-size pickup and has the same 6.5-foot bed as the Cybertruck. OTOH, my truck does not look like something Mick Jagger would drive in a [del]bad[/del] awesome Emilio Estevez movie. > > I think if and when electric pickups take off, the market will probably be owned by the electric F-150 coming out in a couple years. You’re right that many people opt for the shorter bed but all full size trucks come with the option of an 8 ft bed. The Tesla truck doesn’t have that option so they’re not marketing it squarely at the truck market. It fits well into the towing market for people that want to haul 6 people and a boat. Plus the 3 motor version can race muscle cars on the way to the lake. I’m not going to say it won’t sell but It has all the visual appeal of a Pontiac Aztec. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/864 "2019-11-23T18:05:27Z")
That Tesla “pickup” is one ugly vehicle. And I wonder how easy it is to load crap into the back? It looks more like a weird suv than like a pickup. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/865 "2019-11-24T03:54:50Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Full-size pickups rarely have full length boxes these days. Most are sold with 6’6" boxes, or even 5’6" boxes, because a full 8’ box behind a 4-door crew cab is a monstrous beast of a truck. Back in the day when pickups had a single bench seat then yeah, sure, a 6 1/2 foot box wasn’t competitive. Now it is. > > The bigger issue is the high box sides. Ask Honda how well people like those. Once again, I appear to be hanging out with the wrong crowd. Literally all the truck owners I know use their trucks for work, and have either a single front seat or an “extended” cab but with a full-size bed. But if there’s a market for short beds, then good for Tesla. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/866 "2019-11-24T04:08:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If an EV is actually something that could meet your needs, check out the Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro, or the Tesla Model Y available next year. And of course the Bolt could be something to consider. Naw. My husband and i would do well if we had a small electric car and a larger ICE for road trips and when we both need to drive at the same time. We used to have a minivan and a Civic, and we could downside both a little. But we need to keep a mid sized sedan for our adult daughter who lives with us, and it seems excessive to keep three cars. So we are juggling the “small, efficient, easy to park” car we use most days with the “hauls people and stuff there and back” vehicle. I’d love it if Subaru or Toyota made a hybrid electric version of their small SUV. (Or are the RAV4 and whatever Subaru calls theirs crossovers?) I’m considering the hybrid Crosstrek. It’s not really big enough, and it’s underpowered, but it might be an okay compromise. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/867 "2019-11-24T04:14:18Z")
Duplicate ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/868 "2019-11-24T05:07:50Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Naw. My husband and i would do well if we had a small electric car and a larger ICE for road trips and when we both need to drive at the same time. We used to have a minivan and a Civic, and we could downside both a little. > > But we need to keep a mid sized sedan for our adult daughter who lives with us, and it seems excessive to keep three cars. So we are juggling the “small, efficient, easy to park” car we use most days with the “hauls people and stuff there and back” vehicle. > > I’d love it if Subaru or Toyota made a hybrid electric version of their small SUV. (Or are the RAV4 and whatever Subaru calls theirs crossovers?) I’m considering the hybrid Crosstrek. It’s not really big enough, and it’s underpowered, but it might be an okay compromise. Toyota does make a hybrid RAV4. A regular hybrid, not a plug-in hybrid, but a hybrid nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/869 "2019-11-24T05:27:45Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > For instance, we are considering replacing our car. My husband would like to get a Camry to tide us over until there are more hybrid electric options on the market. He even tested the trunk and determined that the sound system I cart to an event every year will fit in it. But then I thought – what about the pole saw I lent a friend a couple of months ago? What about the apple picker I take to the orchard once a year? Or the rakes I brought to my company’s annual service day. What if a friend asks me to bring a couple of folding chairs with me? My current car is a hatchback and if I’m driving alone, it can carry any of those items. I don’t think a Camry can. Doesn’t pretty much every sedan nowadays have back seats that fold down to allow cargo to pass through from the trunk into the passenger compartment? I mean I once carried a six foot step ladder inside a first generation Saturn sedan with the trunk closed. Just fold down the back seats, turn it on its side, stick it between the two front seats, and it fits. If I can carry a ladder in a Saturn then I’m sure a pole saw would be a piece of cake in a Camry. I know the back seats in my old Corolla folded down, so I assume they must in a Camry, too. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/870 "2019-11-24T06:27:04Z")
Some sedans have a small opening in the middle of the back seat, so you can carry long, narrow things and still seat two people in the back. I think these openings were originally meant for skis but you could probably carry something like a pole saw. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/871 "2019-11-24T14:22:30Z")
My Accord doesn’t. It looks like it should, but it turns out there’s no way to drop the seats. I guess i should check whether the Camry does. Thanks for pointing that out. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/872 "2019-11-24T14:24:30Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Toyota does make a hybrid RAV4. A regular hybrid, not a plug-in hybrid, but a hybrid nonetheless. Yeah, and the new one this year even gets better mileage than the non-hybrid, which wasn’t significantly true of last year’s model. That’s one of the vehicles we test drove. But you still need to buy gas all the time… It really is nice having the car charged overnight and always knowing you can drive local errands without thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/873 "2019-11-24T16:45:07Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, and the new one this year even gets better mileage than the non-hybrid, which wasn’t significantly true of last year’s model. That’s one of the vehicles we test drove. But you still need to buy gas all the time… It really is nice having the car charged overnight and always knowing you can drive local errands without thinking about it. Have you looked at the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV? It only has 35 km electric range, but this vehicle works well for a colleague of mine - she had to get a larger vehicle after her family expanded to 5 and a dog… ETA: Plug in Rav -4 is coming for 2021 with 39 miles of electric range… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/874 "2019-11-24T16:57:09Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Once again, I appear to be hanging out with the wrong crowd. Literally all the truck owners I know use their trucks for work, and have either a single front seat or an “extended” cab but with a full-size bed. But if there’s a market for short beds, then good for Tesla. I suspect that there are very different “kinds” of truck owners in different geographic areas. You should see the morning commute in Calgary - truck after truck after truck heading from the suburbs to the downtown core, each one with a single suited executive hauling a load of air. I’m sure they might use the truck on the weekends as well, to go pick up a bag of soil at Home Depot, or such. Their wives are simultaneously driving a giant SUV like a Range Rover to drop their child off at school which is 3 blocks away. Small rural towns have trucks that are obviously used to haul materials and supplies, and are actually used for the purpose. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/875 "2019-11-25T15:08:11Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I suspect that there are very different “kinds” of truck owners in different geographic areas. > > You should see the morning commute in Calgary - truck after truck after truck heading from the suburbs to the downtown core, each one with a single suited executive hauling a load of air. I’m sure they might use the truck on the weekends as well, to go pick up a bag of soil at Home Depot, or such. Their wives are simultaneously driving a giant SUV like a Range Rover to drop their child off at school which is 3 blocks away. > > Small rural towns have trucks that are obviously used to haul materials and supplies, and are actually used for the purpose. Even there, most of them are going to be Supercabs or crew cabs. It’s very rare to see a standard cab pickup around here and if you do, it’s usually been converted to a hotrod. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/876 "2019-11-25T17:32:33Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You should see the morning commute in Calgary - truck after truck after truck heading from the suburbs to the downtown core, each one with a single suited executive hauling a load of air. What I see a lot around here are full sized pickups with the crew cab and short bed, and a cover over the bed. So effectively they’ve turned their pickup into a huge sedan with a really big trunk. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/877 "2019-11-25T20:50:39Z")
[Good article from Mark Reuss, president of GM about electric vehicles.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/25/perspectives/gm-electric-cars/index.html) He identifies three areas where EV’s need to improve to achieve mass acceptance. Unsurprisingly, we have discussed all of them here: **Range** > [@](#): > > Most consumers surveyed during our clinics said they want at least 300 miles of range. At GM, we recently announced that our 2020 Chevrolet Bolt EV will have a range of 259 miles, a 21-mile improvement over the previous model. **Range will continue to improve across the industry, and range anxiety will dissipate.** **Charging Infrastructure** > [@](#): > > Our research also shows that, among those who have considered buying an electric vehicle, but haven’t, the lack of charging stations is the number one reason why. We are seeing increased partnership activity between manufacturers and charging station companies, as well as construction companies that build large infrastructure projects, with the goal of adding thousands of additional public charging stations in the United States. **Cost** > [@](#): > > Another benefit to EV ownership is a lower cost of operation. Most EV owners report that their average cost of operation is about one-third of what a gasoline-powered car owner pays. But the purchase price is typically significantly higher, and that’s where we should see change as each generation of battery technology improves efficiency and reduces cost. Seems like GM is pretty optimistic about the future when it comes to EV’s ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/878 "2019-11-26T00:06:29Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I notice the “vault” on the Cybertruck is 6’5" long. That means it’s too small to compete with the full-size pickups, and instead will class against the Ford Ranger/Chevy Colorado class. However, with the coffin lid on, I guess it will make a fine SUV competitor. I have a 2005 F150 SuperCrew right now and the bed is 5’6" and it’s by far the worst part of the truck for me. I just can’t fit anything larger in my garage. I’ve pre-ordered a Rivian, which also fits in my garage according to the specs, but the piece which is making me re-consider is the bed length. I use my truck bed for construction 3-4 times a year, hauling lots of plywood, 2x4s, etc. and no “gear tunnel” or “frunk” is going to offset a short bed. If I can’t haul a stack of 4x8 plywood, even if I have to lower the tailgate and tie them in, that’s a dealbreaker. The sides of the “vault” on the cybertruck would make side loading/unloading ridiculously difficult, which is a major negative as well. There’s a reason a lot of trucks have a step in the side behind the cab, it’s useful to be able to get in on both sides and in front of a load. Everything from getting access to tie strap attachment points to getting out of the way once you’ve loaded a sofa or something would be more difficult in the Cybertruck. Not saying they shouldn’t make it, or that anyone who doesn’t have these needs/concerns shouldn’t buy it, just that those are reasons I’m not re-considering my Rivian reservation at this point. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/879 "2019-11-26T18:54:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > In this scenario, is the EV driver completely unaware of the diminishing range of his car during this four-day period? So like, the car is just going to stop in the middle of the road and he will have had no idea what just happened? Nope! Guess you might need to read where the scenario was posted and repeated and rerepeated to find out a more detailed answer. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/880 "2019-11-26T19:04:17Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Nope! Guess you might need to read where the scenario was posted and repeated and rerepeated to find out a more detailed answer. Point me to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254.md?page=45)